How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Their followers think, they are following the Truth. If Hinduism is the one revealed by God or gods, why the God does not care about all the people who are following other religions which were not revealed by Him?

My God Siva loves all His emanation. including all people of all faiths. I honestly don't know where you're getting your ideas about Hinduism. I feel you're projecting stuff that isn't there. For example, Bahais aren't persecuted in India. India has been safe haven for a lot of faiths escaping persecution.

 

[Vinayaka]

It may be the only way as you say because in order to appreciate light we must live in darkness but if each Hindu was a candle imagine how much light would be shed on humanity even in the darkness.

If humanity were shown a better way I think they'd embrace it wholeheartedly but they are lost without a guide. I just think that Hinduism could have changed the course of history had it actively spread ahimsa all over the world and it still can.

It doesn't mean conversion but rather transformation from a violent world to a non violent world.

I just can't see, honestly how the world will ever reach a state of relative peace without the input of Hinduism and ahimsa. Sooner or later, Hinduism is going to be called upon to play a much more prominent role in world affairs as the world is stuck in a vicious cycle of never ending violence it can't extricate itself from.

There are peace movements all around the planet by all kinds of people, many inspired by Gandhian philosophy, which came from Hinduism, obviously. Bahai, the Ammadiya sect, all the pacifist Christians (like Hutterites) are all working on ahimsa. It is as it should be.

 

[Vinayaka]

Are you familiar with Islamic sources?

No.

 

[Vinayaka]

What has instead happened is large parts of the world have been deprived of ahimsa.

I think this is just false. I think nearly everyone on this planet has been exposed to ahimsa. I can't imagine any school anywhere where the teacher says to the class, "At recess I want you all to go outside and beat the pulp out of each other!"

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No.

No problem. I actually spent some years, learning Islamic Sources. Obviously i never claim I know it all. But, from what I have learnt, the story is, in Islam there are many Recorded Traditions, in addition to Quran, which would help understanding Quran, and interpreting it, through learning how Muhammad and His House hold explained and practised Quran. But, because Muslims became divided into several sects, thus, each sects has owned their own portion of recorded traditions. There are two major sects, sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis would not use those Recorded Traditions which are available in Shia sources, saying, we do not trust them to be authentic sayings of Muhammad, and the Shias do not want to have much to do with the Sunni collection of Hadithes. Thus, although these recorded traditions would help, having a united understanding of Quran, but because each sect has only a portion of the knowledge, they cannot agree on interpretations of many verses of Quran. More recently, there is a newer Quranic sect added, saying, we do not need Hadith to understand Quran. Thus, they use their own mind to interpret verses of Quran, and thus in many cases, their interpretations are different than How Muhammad and His Household explained Quran as seen in Recorded Traditions.
In Bahai faith these Problems are solved. Bahaullah wrote that, after Himself, All Bahais must turn to Abdulbaha for interpretation, as He is the only one who knows the interpretation of Bahai Scriptures perfectly. And Abdulbaha wrote a lot to explain Bahai Scriptures, thus, the Bahais would not disagree about interpretations, as we only refer to Abdulbaha's writings. This is how the unity of Bahais is maintained at the worldwide level, and no body could succeed in making divisions and sects within Bahai Faith (thought there has been attempts).

 

[Vinayaka]

In Bahai faith these Problem is solved. Bahaullah wrote, after Himself, All Bahais must turn to Abdulbaha for interpretation, as He is the only one who knows the interpretation of Bahai Scriptures perfectly. And Abdulbaha wrote a lot to explain Bahai Scriptures, thus, the Bahais would not disagree about interpretations, as we only refer to Abdulbaha's writings. This is how the unity of Bahais is maintained at the worldwide level, and no body could succeed in making divisions and sects within Bahai Faith (thought there has been attempts).

Who is Abdulbaha?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Who is Abdulbaha?

In Bahai Faith, Abdulbaha is the appointed successor of Bahaullah. According to Bahaullah, Abdulbaha is given infallibility and perfect knowledge for interpretation through the Will of God, and one of the titles given to Him by Bahaullah is the Greatest mystery of God. According to our History, Abdulbaha did not receive any education, as He was imprisoned from childhood, though He had great knowledge of interpretation of all Religions, as well as sciences and history, and whatever anybody asked Him, He always had good knowledge to answer.

 

[Vinayaka]

In Bahai Faith, Abdulbaha is the appointed successor of Bahaullah. According to Bahaullah, Abdulbaha is given infallibility and perfect knowledge for interpretation through the Will of God, and one of the titles given to Him by Bahaullah is the Greatest mystery of God. According to our History, Abdulbaha did not receive any education, as He was imprisoned from childhood, though He had great knowledge of interpretation of all Religions, as well as sciences and history, and whatever anybody asked Him, He always had good knowledge to answer.

So it's the infallibility thing again. The declaration of infallibility makes it really easy for followers, that's for sure. Not much to argue about, once that central belief is indoctrinated. But competing religions also have their prophets being infallible, so I guess everyone is right in their own mind.

Did Abdulbaha also appoint a successor?

 

[Vinayaka]

Whats egotistical in administering medicine to a dying patient?

Maybe he doesn't want the medicine. You have to assume he does. This is off topic, but I have a living will to not administer medicine to me once I'm incapable of feeding myself. If you or any other person went ahead without my written wishes, my children would be launching a lawsuit.

Maybe you should walk into Syria, and start preaching ahimsa in the middle of that horrible battlefield. lol. Its a pipe dream at the moment.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Did Abdulbaha also appoint a successor?

Abdu'l-Baha passed away during 1921 and wrote a will and testament where he appointed twin successors, the Guardian of the Faith and the Universal House of Justice. He specifically appointed his eldest grandson Shoghi Effendi to be Guardian of the faith. Shoghi Effendi was relatively young (24 years old) and so took some time to consider his new found responsibilities, and arranged for Bahiyyih Khanum, Baha'u'llah's daughter to take over the reigns of the Faith for about 9 months until Shoghi Effendi felt prepared to accept the responsibility.

Bahiyyih Khánum - Wikipedia

It became clear that the time was not right for establishing the Universal House of Justice as this required an election by members of National Spiritual Assemblies (NSAs) throughout the world. There needed to be a sufficient number of NSAs and at that stage there were none. The work of the faith in the coming decades was to establish the Baha'i Faith in all parts of the world. In 1963 the first Universal House of Justice was elected based on participation of 56 National Assemblies.

The Universal House of Justice ensures the continuous flow of Divine guidance.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So it's the infallibility thing again. The declaration of infallibility makes it really easy for followers, that's for sure. Not much to argue about, once that central belief is indoctrinated. But competing religions also have their prophets being infallible, so I guess everyone is right in their own mind.

Did Abdulbaha also appoint a successor?

I believe infallibility is important, otherwise, how can I trust someone that He tells me the Truth from a supernatural source? A God who wants to communicate with Mankind, must create an infallible Person, to make sure He would transmit His message to Mankind without error.

Yes, Abdulbaha appointed Shoghi Effendi, as the Gardian of the Faith. Bahaullah had written eventually Bahais must elect by voting, the universal House of Justice. So, after Shoghi Effendi, Bahais elected the first UHJ, and since then, every 5 years, they go through the Election process as per Bahai Scriptures.

 

[Vinayaka]

Abdu'l-Baha passed away during 1921 and wrote a will and testament where he appointed twin successors, the Guardian of the Faith and the Universal House of Justice. He specifically appointed his eldest grandson Shoghi Effendi to be Guardian of the faith. Shoghi Effendi was relatively young (24 years old) and so took some time to consider his new found responsibilities, and arranged for Bahiyyih Khanum, Baha'u'llah's daughter to take over the reigns of the Faith for about 9 months until Shoghi Effendi felt prepared to accept the responsibility.

Bahiyyih Khánum - Wikipedia

It became clear that the time was not right for establishing the Universal House of Justice as this required an election by members of National Spiritual Assemblies (NSAs) throughout the world. There needed to be a sufficient number of NSAs and at that stage there were none. The work of the faith in the coming decades was to establish the Baha'i Faith in all parts of the world. In 1963 the first Universal House of Justice was elected based on participation of 56 National Assemblies.

The Universal House of Justice ensures the continuous flow of Divine guidance.

Sounds a lot like the way the LDS church is organised. I could be wrong though.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Maybe he doesn't want the medicine. You have to assume he does. This is off topic, but I have a living will to not administer medicine to me once I'm incapable of feeding myself. If you or any other person went ahead without my written wishes, my children would be launching a lawsuit.

Maybe you should walk into Syria, and start preaching ahimsa in the middle of that horrible battlefield. lol. Its a pipe dream at the moment.

Sometimes when patients are very ill, the do not have the capacity to make the best decisions. Its great you have an advanced directive because you have made a decision about your healthcare in the future and it should be respected by all parties. Most people don't write advanced directives and so creates a moral dilemma for family and health professionals.

The whole analogy when applied to religion needs to be questioned at this point as your rightly point out. Should we be administering the healing medicine of religious faith to be people against their will because we think it is good for them? Muhammad Himself said let there be no compulsion in religion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Sounds a lot like the way the LDS church is organised. I could be wrong though.

I don't think so.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia

LDS appears to have an appointed priesthood of 12 men. There doesn't appear to be an election.

Another key difference is that the Universal House of Justice members have no more authority outside of meetings than any other Baha'i. The authority rests with the institution rather than the individual.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Sounds a lot like the way the LDS church is organised. I could be wrong though.

Of course not.
LDS is a Christian denomination, just added another sect and division in many already divisions within Christianity. Neither LDS has a new divinely revealed Book that is claimed to be better, or more suitable for our Age, than the Revelation of Christ.

 

[Vinayaka]

Should we be administering the healing medicine of religious faith to be people against their will because we think it is good for them?

You obviously by now know my answer to that one. I've seen it turn into a real fight once. A great uncle orally told a few people he wanted his body to be cremated, but the people who hadn't been told, or were obstinate about projecting their own beliefs wanted the corpse buried. After a shouting match, they agreed to bury his ashes.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't think so.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia

LDS appears to have an appointed priesthood of 12 men. There doesn't appear to be an election.

Another key difference is that the Universal House of Justice members have no more authority outside of meetings than any other Baha'i. The authority rests with the institution rather than the individual.

It was just a guess. Thanks.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course not.
LDS is a Christian denomination, just added another sect and division in many already divisions within Christianity. Neither LDS has a new divinely revealed Book that is claimed to be better, or more suitable for our Age, than the Revelation of Christ.

You do understand that from an outsider's POV, Bahai seems very much like a very liberal version of Islam. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but that's how I see it.

This idea of debate over whether or not an offshoot sect is still part of the main religion is a common one in many faiths, including mine. There are lots of groups who claim not to be Hindu, or have other Hindu groups say that they're not. Many Christians put LDS outside of Christianity, as seen on these forums. In Hinduism, many modern neo-Hindu or universalist groups avoid the term 'Hindu' as if it were the world's worst curse word, the unthinkable.

 

[CG Didymus]

He called in the Kings to do just that.

Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice.

Clearly Hindus are included to be protected.

India had its own problem with England. I'm talking about the U.S. Would the Baha'is support and even take part in preventing the take over of all the lands in the "New World" by the European countries?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You do understand that from an outsider's POV, Bahai seems very much like a very liberal version of Islam. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but that's how I see it.

This idea of debate over whether or not an offshoot sect is still part of the main religion is a common one in many faiths, including mine. There are lots of groups who claim not to be Hindu, or have other Hindu groups say that they're not. Many Christians put LDS outside of Christianity, as seen on these forums. In Hinduism, many modern neo-Hindu or universalist groups avoid the term 'Hindu' as if it were the world's worst curse word, the unthinkable.

Religions can be said to have Two Major teachings.

The first part, is those Religious Laws, such as Fasting, diet, Rites, Marriage Law, punishment and Religious Ceremonies. Another major teachings, are spiritual teachings.
In this Sense, Islam and Jewish Faith are very similar, as both emphasize a lot on Religious Laws, called Sharia. On the other hand Christianity emphasizes less on these Acts or Works, and more on spirituality. In this sense Bahai Faith is more similar to Christianity! And Bahaullah also has said, this faith is more similar to Christianity. But because Bahais accept, Islam's divine origin, and see their Faith as fulfilment of Prophesies of Mahdi, and often refer to these Prophesies to teach the Faith, from those outside, it would probably look like Islam. But, if you ever decide to go to some Bahai gatherings, for curiosity or socializing, you would see how it is.