How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

The main reason we don't have peace now is Baha'u'llah is out of the equation. No matter what they've tried, anything short of the unity of mankind and religion just isn't working.

The Baha'i Community proves the unity of religion brings peace.

Religion has put itself out of the equation by not being united. So do you thing the Baha'i Faith has done enough to prove itself a religion that can bring peace? But why am I asking you? Of course you do. But, does the world notice or care what the Baha'i Faith is doing?

 

[Vinayaka]

Ah, young one,

Feelin' pretty old ... tired, old, grumpy, underfed, spiritually starved, lost, arthritic, bloated, confused ... my God I need a saviour ... soon.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I always get a chuckle when I hear 'old ways' . My faith has totally adapted to a modern world, as have many others. Many of those 'old ways' work far better than the new ways. People are turning to health techniques like ayurvedic medicine and acupuncture all the time. Why? Nothing works better than tried and tested.

Yeah. I'm a bit of a newbie learning about the Old Ways from a holistic or working with the earth perspective. I mean, you take out the way we cure and treat the environment back in the olden days, we'll be stuck in techno mess for the rest of our lives. I feel the old ways are more valuable than the new ones (either that or I'm getting older than my looks). My friend and probably girlfriend doesn't even want to call and hear my voice on the phone! Everything by text-text-text.

Actually, Bahai is the only religion that says they don't have old ways anymore. Even religions that don't admit they have traditions still value passing their teachings from past to present.

 

[Vinayaka]

Even religions that don't admit they have traditions still value passing their teachings from past to present.

There is something very encouraging about chanting a mantra that you know has been continuously chanted since before recorded history by someone somewhere on this planet.

Aum Na Ma Si Va Ya

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is something very encouraging about chanting a mantra that you know has been continuously chanted since before recorded history by someone somewhere on this planet.

Aum Na Ma Si Va Ya

Translation??

 

[Vinayaka]

How can one not be inspired by this 'old ways' video?

But then I'm a Hindu. lol.

 

[Vinayaka]

Translation??

The central mantra of Saivism, found in the middle of the Rg Veda. Has no translation. It is a series of sounds, called Beej Mantras. Sounds correspond to colour, to vibration. So something like 'Praise Siva' or 'all glory to Siva' I suppose. Technically though it has no specific meaning, although during recital, the devotee may focus on 5 powers of Siva, or the 5 elements, with corresponding syllables. But I'm derailing the thread, so will cease and desist. But it was just to say something about the depth of the 'old ways'

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The central mantra of Saivism, found in the middle of the Rg Veda. Has no translation. It is a series of sounds, called Beej Mantras. Sounds correspond to colour, to vibration. So something like 'Praise Siva' or 'all glory to Siva' I suppose. Technically though it has no specific meaning, although during recital, the devotee may focus on 5 powers of Siva, or the 5 elements, with corresponding syllables. But I'm derailing the thread, so will cease and desist. But it was just to say something about the depth of the 'old ways'

That sounds something I'd like to learn about sometime (puts it on her "needs to know everything" list) I love learning languages and culture but I do wish to travel and experience it first hand.

So I'm assuming in short, the mantra meaning is based on the sounds and syllabus rather than meaning and interpretation?

 

[CG Didymus]

Feelin' pretty old ... tired, old, grumpy, underfed, spiritually starved, lost, arthritic, bloated, confused ... my God I need a saviour ... soon.

Hmmm, another saviour is coming in about 500 years. You can bank on it. Baha'u'llah said so. I think he also said one day there will be an inter-planetary manifestation. I can't wait.

 

[Vinayaka]

That sounds something I'd like to learn about sometime (puts it on her "needs to know everything" list) I love learning languages and culture but I do wish to travel and experience it first hand.

So I'm assuming in short, the mantra meaning is based on the sounds and syllabus rather than meaning and interpretation?

Sound itself has meaning in Hinduism. Differing paradigms.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The way you put this, it sounds like Baha'u'llah was the one and only person advocating for world peace. This is simply not true. Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, and a ton of other great secular and religious leaders have been putting forth peaceful messages and calls for a very long time. Indigenous groups and cultures from all around the planet were peaceful. Baha'u'llah was/is just one of several. Again, it certainly isn't a unique message.

Here's a small list: U Thant Peace Award - Wikipedia

No, of course that's untrue as there are many advocates of world peace. We acknowledge there have been many people working for world peace and we work with them all over the world today.

But Baha'u'llah is the only One to address world peace collectively to humanity in His Holy Books.

For instance, there are no scriptures in the Torah, the Gospels, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Quran or any other Holy Book that addresses the issue of world peace collectively in their scriptures.

Baha'u'llah is the only Manifestation of God to do so in His Holy Books and Scriptures.

Holy Scriptures have an impression and influence on humanity greater than any power on earth so a religion that comes along with a goal of world peace can become a very powerful catalyst in bringing it about.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Sound itself has meaning in Hinduism. Differing paradigms.

Hmm. The irony of it since Bahai focus on meaning and interpretations instead of sounds (and other...)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Religion has put itself out of the equation by not being united. So do you thing the Baha'i Faith has done enough to prove itself a religion that can bring peace? But why am I asking you? Of course you do. But, does the world notice or care what the Baha'i Faith is doing?

Only time will tell. We are a world community comprised of a cross section of tribes, languages races, nationalities and religions so we're headed in the right direction but peace will have to be established by all people. We are just a catalyst right now not large enough at present to bring about peace.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, of course that's untrue as there are many advocates of world peace. We acknowledge there have been many people working for world peace and we work with them all over the world today.

But you're not giving these advocates any credit towards greater peace by saying...

But Baha'u'llah is the only One to address world peace collectively to humanity in His Holy Books.

Which I find odd when you said that the other books basically support this teachings but now they don't address world peace as previously stated, so why are they in your religion?

For instance, there are no scriptures in the Torah, the Gospels, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Quran or any other Holy Book that addresses the issue of world peace collectively in their scriptures.

That would mean these sacred text do not coinside with Bahaullah's teachings.

Baha'u'llah is the only Manifestation of God to do so in His Holy Books and Scriptures.

Yet, you believe Christ, Muhammad, Moses, and The Buddha have some influence in their time period towards greater world peace. But if their teachings are only relevant for their day and their prophets don't contribute to world peace, why are they in your scriptures?

Holy Scriptures have an impression and influence on humanity greater than any power on earth so a religion that comes along with a goal of world peace can become a very powerful catalyst in bringing it about.

Yes. I've seen lives changed for the better and greater peace because scripture-in my experience seeing people change with the Bible, Quran, and Lotus sutra-towards greater peace is saying that even though we have wars, we still have the ability to fight the journey together.

But you got to come down from the political mass level and address religion personally. Would you say the same to @Vinayaka that he (right?) will cause wars because you say in his religious history there were wars among Hindu people?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But you're not giving these advocates any credit towards greater peace by saying...



Which I find odd when you said that the other books basically support this teachings but now they don't address world peace as previously stated, so why are they in your religion?



That would mean these sacred text do not coinside with Bahaullah's teachings.



Yet, you believe Christ, Muhammad, Moses, and The Buddha have some influence in their time period towards greater world peace. But if their teachings are only relevant for their day and their prophets don't contribute to world peace, why are they in your scriptures?



Yes. I've seen lives changed for the better and greater peace because scripture-in my experience seeing people change with the Bible, Quran, and Lotus sutra-towards greater peace is saying that even though we have wars, we still have the ability to fight the journey together.

But you got to come down from the political mass level and address religion personally. Would you say the same to @Vinayaka that he (right?) will cause wars because you say in his religious history there were wars among Hindu people?

Baha'u'llah is the One Who has come with an actual peace plan with instructions on how to achieve it,

Other religions were revealed at a different time for different reasons but did not address world peace primarily because the world had not yet been discovered or nations established.

So you will not find in the Quran, Torah, Bible or Buddhist and Hindu Holy Books any references to world peace.

However, now, because of advances in technology, travel and communications, when all the world's races, religions and nationalities are intermingling and coming into closer contact than ever before, we are in need of a global ethic.

Baha'u'llah brings that ethic based on the oneness of humanity and the spiritual oneness of religion.

We are stuck in a kind of limbo because no one really knows how to establish peace. Issues not commonly associated with peace must be addressed if we are to have peace.

Extremes of wealth and poverty keeps war always on the agenda.

Until women have a large say in international affairs, peace cannot happen because it has been mostly male aggression which has driven wars.

The conflicts between religions must be addressed.religious fanaticism must be addressed or how can we have world peace?

Racism must be educated out of humanity. Racial hatred is a cause of violence.

Unfettered nationalism is always keeping nations in a state of confrontation

Weapons of mass destruction which can reach other nations are an enormous threat to world peace because they elevate tension but also nations use these weapons as a deterrent to justice being administered them from oppressing their own people.

Human rights must become universal otherwise civil wars will never end.

So it's not just a matter of one individual meditating and creating good karma for himself but the restructuring of our society which is based on out date laws.

We live in one world but are trying to apply ancient laws to it and it's clearly not working.

In the Peace Message given to the UN and all humanity, Bahaullah's Plan for world peace is outlined with instructions on how to begin the process.

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

We need to address world peace collectively and individually. Both society and the individual need to transform and only religion can achieve this transformation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That does not mean anything in regards to spirituality just numbers and politics. Who are you actually addressing when you want to fix these wars?

I mean, the Catholics I live among, Muslims, etc work around each other. At school is Muslim dominated but they chit chat with the rest of their friends of different nationalities and religions. I certainly don't cause wars (at least none with rifles and guns but maybe in my head). Bahai isn't perfect just because you say there were no wars between you guys. If you believe in Christianity, you are all sinners too. If Buddhism, you're also delusional.

If you want to have world peace you have to do so on an individual level. That's why there are Catholic Charities and other religions that do work towards peace and they don't have unrealistic assumptions that there will be world peace at all without addressing the individual person's spiritual well-being.

Bahaullah being a messenger of god doesn't correlate with Christ being a son of god. If you want world peace, you have to address the conflicts on the other side rather than keep telling us yourside.

We know your side. What about ours?

There are a lot more issues involved in establishing peace. I addressed them in another's post.

Basically, to transform both society and the individual you require a spiritual power that only the Word of God can ever have claimed to possess.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's something you either have to accept or live hoping for the promised one to come to make things better again. In Christianity, (outside of JW view), mainstream says jesus won't make world peace on earth. He said Christians will have new bodies and be with god forever. There is no "world" peace in Christianity. Likewise with Buddhism. The Buddha doesn't talk about world peace but peace of mind. He said life is suffering how to end suffering is not to change the world but to change one's self.

If actual Christianity and Buddhism are part of your faith, they totally contradict what you have said in your last two posts.



There is no such thing as old ways. If you accept and respect diversity, you would have interest to understand this and why. Do you have interest?

Keeping old ways does not mean people don't want world peace. Again, tradition is held because it is meant to be handed on from one generation to the next. It gives the individual and the religious community a sense of being and origin. These traditions are relevant for yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Traditions don't case war. People do.



No. If you follow Buddhism as well as other faiths in Bahai, you'd understand that the laws of nature are based on cause and affect or karma. What we do will affect us, people, and our environment like a ripple effect that we may or may not see. You cannot change the laws of nature to build world peace.

Since there are many religions that are one-dominate and others that are not, Bahaullah cannot be the source of world peace (nor Christ and Muhammad etc). There has to be mutual understanding and agreement to even get to world peace.

But as long as you stick with Bahaullah, that's already division just as many other abrahamic religions. It's ironic, too. Bahaullah says respect diversity but if you want world peace follow him and the prophets.



Yes by respect people's religions without needing them to comform to Bahaullah's teachings rather than their own.

By not referring to their teachings as "old ways" and taking interest in understanding their traditions as we continue to read about all of your bahai quotes to understand yours.

You don't have to agree with me. I just don't think you either don't understand, don't want to understand, or have no interest.

If you have an illness and find a remedy does it matter who is the doctor? Yet you make such an issue of Baha'u'llah even though He has provided a remedy for the illness of this age which is the recognition of the oneness of humanity.

That we love all people, all religions, races and nations and yet you oppose the one remedy for the ills of the worlds because you are biased against the doctor? How strange. So the patient matters not?

Clearly you are not putting suffering of the patient first but more interested in preventing the Physician from administering a cure.

 

[sanjiv kapadia]

How do we explain these Great Beings: Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab & Bahaullah? They are somewhat unique and unparalleled in human history and were clearly not ordinary people.

There are famous people in history, famous artists, musicians and scientists but none can compare to the influence of the Educator, Teacher, Messiah or Prophet.

But Who were they? And why were they and still are so influential throughout history? Why did they inspire civilizations? Why have their scriptures become patterns of life followed daily by billions of people for thousands of years?

What gift did they possess to be able to be persecuted, oppressed, tortured, exiled and crucified by the most despotic and powerful leaders of their age with but a handful of followers and yet eventually triumph over adversity and establish Their Cause all over the world?

Statues, Churches, Temples, Pagodas, Mosques and Synagogues are built all over the world to pay tribute to these Great Souls.

Are they from another world? Did they pre exist? Without a special power how could they have accomplished what they did and who is their equal in influence?

And aren't we in dire need of another Great Spiritual Teacher to revive us spiritually?

it is because they developed divinity in themselves. We are combination of three qualities, sat, raj and tam. Such souls mentioned by you are the one with souls full of 'rajoguna'

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm personally not at war with anyone either. Hindus aren't at war right now either, as far as I know, although Islamisation is a problem, just as persecution of Bahais in Iran is a problem too I guess, although I'm officially neutral out of a lack of first hand knowledge.

There's a lot to forgive if we want peace. A lot of reconciliation to do. A lot of compromise. A lot of focus needs to be on each religions truths and good things rather than things we don't like.

Creating trust between nations, religions and races is a primary Baha'i goal. If we can't trust each other how can we have any sort of peace except one which is secretly amassing weapons 'in case'. This scenario of setting aside $trillions from the world economy based not on actual wars but mistrust is depriving the poor and needy of an education, employment and health care.

 

[loverofhumanity]

it is because they developed divinity in themselves. We are combination of three qualities, sat, raj and tam. Such souls mentioned by you are the one with souls full of 'rajoguna'

Thank you. More information or literature? Rajoguna I have not heard of before. Can you elaborate if you have time or some links please?