How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

The Bahais do not accept blindly, the infallibility of Bahaullah or Abdulbaha.

Good. Definitly disagreeing with your fellow Baha'i' lover of humanity on this then. Good to know you can question.

 

[Vinayaka]

There are many forms of natural medicines and I much prefer them and holistic medicine than drugs. We are told that things that taste and smell good will be the remedies of the future.

Look up noni juice. I'm taking it right now for digestive ailments and it seems to help a ton. But taste? Yeccchhhh! It tastes horrible.

 

[sayak83]

How would you decide if he is independent?
I think independent investigation of truth is something we should do ourselves. There are many researchers who looked into Bahai Faith.
Their works may still contain error. So, we need to analyze their books. Eventually, the historical books, must be analyzed against verifiable evidence.

He has a degree in history, is not of the Bahai faith and have written a book about early Bahai history in a university or academic press. That's the criterion. Do you have some links?

 

[Vinayaka]

The Bahais do not accept blindly, the infallibility of Bahaullah or Abdulbaha.
The Bahai belief is solely through the investigation, and in my understanding, it relies on at least the following:
1. According to history Bahaullah and Abdulbaha did not study, and did not go to school, they did not have books to study, yet they had detailed knowledge of Traditions, histories, sciences, and holy books. Bahais see these as a sign of divinity.

I would view all of this history of Baha'u'llah and his son and his grandson as at least up for debate. I'm not saying the Baha'i' literature on it is blatantly false, but neither am I saying that it is absolutely literally true. There could be exaggeration, distortion, etc involved due to bias of the writers. This is true for even more recent history or current affairs. For example if you look at some politician from say, even ten years back, there will be those who say he/she was the greatest thing to happen to that country, and those who will say the opposite. All history, no matter how recent is subject to bias and distortion. But yes, as a general principle, the farther back we go, the more convoluted it can become.

 

[Vinayaka]

He has a degree in history, is not of the Bahai faith and have written a book about early Bahai history in a university or academic press. That's the criterion. Do you have some links?

Here's a link for you. The Baha'i faith: its history and teachings: William McElwee Miller: 9780878081370: Amazon.com: Books

Done by a Christian though, that may hold anti-Baha'i bias. We need look no further than our own Hindu stuff or history being written by anti-Hindu Christians or secularists to be suspicious. But hey, it's a start.

I personally feel there is no such thing a s a book without bias.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How would you decide if he is independent?
I think independent investigation of truth is something we should do ourselves. There are many researchers who looked into Bahai Faith.
Their works may still contain error. So, we need to analyze their books. Eventually, the historical books, must be analyzed against verifiable evidence.

WHAT! Only Abdulbaha (and Bahuallah and The Bab) can interpret text? Followers of revealed religions cannot interpret their own text according to Bahai, how can Bahai interpret someone else's text as well? They have special permission?

 

[sayak83]

Here's a link for you. The Baha'i faith: its history and teachings: William McElwee Miller: 9780878081370: Amazon.com: Books

Done by a Christian though, that may hold anti-Baha'i bias. We need look no further than our own Hindu stuff or history being written by anti-Hindu Christians or secularists to be suspicious. But hey, it's a start.

I personally feel there is no such thing a s a book without bias.

This is not a historian. The thing with historians is that I know the methods they are using and hence can correct for it. Personal bias is hard to gage. Further a book in an university press has to meet a certain standard of histiography. Better the devil you know....

 

[Vinayaka]

This is not a historian. The thing with historians is that I know the methods they are using and hence can correct for it. Personal bias is hard to gage. Further a book in an university press has to meet a certain standard of histiography. Better the devil you know....

I don't think there are any then. Not that I could find by searching. I guess you'll just have to believe what these fellows tell you, lol.

Edited ... Here's site that might interest you,. I'm not really sure how to recognise 'scholarly' as anyone can use the word 'scholarly' and it don't mean nuthin.

Academic Scholarship on the Shaykhi, Babi and Baha'i Movements

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I would view all of this history of Baha'u'llah and his son and his grandson as at least up for debate. I'm not saying the Baha'i' literature on it is blatantly false, but neither am I saying that it is absolutely literally true. There could be exaggeration, distortion, etc involved due to bias of the writers. This is true for even more recent history or current affairs. For example if you look at some politician from say, even ten years back, there will be those who say he/she was the greatest thing to happen to that country, and those who will say the opposite. All history, no matter how recent is subject to bias and distortion. But yes, as a general principle, the farther back we go, the more convoluted it can become.

Sure everything is possible. We can only know if we investigate it independently.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sure everything is possible. We can only know if we investigate it independently.

Which of course is very hard to do, probably impossible. If we had a time machine, sure. All you can do is read the accounts of many historians, or all that might be available,and then decide for yourself. But a total independent investigation would be impossible at this point.

A person can say they investigated independently, but then a person can say he can scale a ladder to the moon, or say he's the new prophet too.

I've read many accounts of self-proclaimed independent investigators.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This is not a historian. The thing with historians is that I know the methods they are using and hence can correct for it. Personal bias is hard to gage. Further a book in an university press has to meet a certain standard of histiography. Better the devil you know....

Look at the works of Edward G. brow, as a start point. He was not a Bahai. He has written many things about Bahai History. He has seen Bahaullah, and the Bab. He did not become a Bahai.
I think, also look at the works of Denis M. MacEoin. I do not think he is Bahai (i am not sure though) He has done lots of research, and is knowledgeable on history. You would find links from them on internet, and perhaps some works has to be purchased.

 

[sayak83]

Look at the works of Edward G. brow, as a start point. He was not a Bahai. He has written many things about Bahai History. He has seen Bahaullah, and the Bab. He did not become a Bahai.
I think, also look at the works of Denis M. MacEoin. I do not think he is Bahai (i am not sure though) He has done lots of research, and is knowledgeable on history. You would find links from them on internet, and perhaps some works has to be purchased.

Cool. Thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is an unsolicited post.

For some time now Carlita has kindly pointed out we should 'ask the religionists about their religions'. I've been wondering how we can do this and it just occurred to me we can do it here so I am including links to sites which I hope will cover all the religionsists where we can get information from them direct about their beliefs. I have not left out anyone intentionally but if I have I apologise.

This is really all thanks to Carlita.

Ask Pagans

What is Paganism? - Pagan Federation International

What is Paganism?

Ask Hindus (courtesy of Vinayaka)

Hindupedia, the Hindu Encyclopedia

Ask Muslims

http://www.askislampedia.com/web/guest/basic-islam-info

Ask Christians

Theopedia | An encyclopedia of Biblical Christianity

Ask Buddhists

SuttaCentral: Early Buddhist texts, translations, and parallels

Ask Zoroastrians

AVESTA -- Zoroastrian Archives

Ask Jews

JewishEncyclopedia.com

Ask Baha'is

The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

Actually, I've explained how to "ask permission." There are a couple of in-person ways you can go about it.

1. For example, when I was at a Native American POW WOW (dance festival [lack of better words] where recognized tribes and some others come to perform culture dances to the public.) Mostly to bring money they sale to "the whites" back to their reservations since the US Government doesn't pay them well since they aren't American citizens (the non-recognized tribes.)

Anyhow. While there, as an African American I was looked a bit more highly upon than the "whites" even to this day because we share personal experiences and history. So, if I knew the people I talked with better, they'd probably tell me a bit more about their culture than they would a white person. That shared experience and/or even respect to the point of not taking advantage of their culture for ones own uses is "asking respect."

2. Asking respect also comes in knowing your boundries when you talk to someone who differs in religion. For example, a Hindu may invite you into their temple but if you interpret their scriptures or act in role of a priest, then that is overstepping your boundaries. If you have earned that right to be in that role or you have asked the priest or authority (which you can ask in person) if you can use sacred text for whatever so be, that's asking permission. Asking permission is also respecting not to put the Quran on a dirty floor. Wearing a Hijab without knowing the significance of it. (Cultural appropriation) Most "asking permission" involves experience in that religion (for example, you can't take the Eucharist unless confirmed in the sacraments of Christ) and/or raised in that faith say many people in the same area are not native american but raised near reservations and involved in some cultural norms.

Asking permission is an action of respect. It is the same thing online.

3. If a Hindu is telling you you are wrong and you consistently say "Hinduism" is part of your faith because you have a Hindu god in it, that is disrespectful. Asking permission is more "I believe this about Krishna is this true? He says no, it is not." You can believe whatever you want, but the fact is it is not true regardless of what you believe. Understanding that boundary is asking permission.

It's the same with most non-universal "old" religions that you consider irrelevant for today's time. So, it's a change of perspection in how you talk with others. Yes, you can say whatever you believe but just know your boundary in saying "until they come to Bahaullah" compared to "Bahai believes that..." You guys do good some of the time. Other times you kinda slip up. No hard feelings. But you can't miss it.

The links are good. Asking permission is one-on-one interaction whether it's talking or more preferable to most people in person. But links help with information. So it's all good.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

Here are some more resources on those religions.
Remember. It's natural for everyone to have different perspectives in faith. That's why there is no one truth. Also, "asking permission" is asking the people not research.

Paganism

1. Celtic Religion
2. Druidry
3. Heathenry

Hinduism

1. Durga Temple
2. Hinduism
3. Infaith

Buddhism

1. Accesstoinsight (Buddhism is a practice. Learn about the practice to understand the belief rather than understand the belief to learn about the practice)

2. Nichiren Shu (This is an accurate site. I practiced Nichiren Buddhism for two or so years)

3. Ekoji Temple I went here. It is actually nice. It's Pureland Buddhism so not quite traditional.

Islam

1. Islam Six Pillars
2. Islam Bulletin

Christianity (Oh gosh. Every other link is christian oriented)

1. Catechism of the Catholic Church
2. jehovah witness

I won't list them all. EWTN has a lot of things. I'm Catholic minded but I'm sure you can "get permissional resources" in other places.

Asking permission is a one to one thing. Many religious respect that. One more link: Seeking Native American Spirituality This is a good example of cultural appropriation, asking permission, and respecting boundaries all in one site.

Please read this post. Take your time. It's been repeated but hopefully, this is easier to read.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, many are. But do you personally know all 5 million of them? I really don't want to start providing links to the dozens of anti-Bahai blogs and journals, but if you google 'leaving Bahai' or some such thing, you can find it for yourself. However, I presume that that might be against the rules for you, so it's all good.

Not at all. I am fully aware of many of these links and have read dozens of their stories. From Marshall to Cole and others.

The Universal House of Justice deals with perfect justice with every Bahá'í.

the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both). Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God;

 

[loverofhumanity]

Actually, I've explained how to "ask permission." There are a couple of in-person ways you can go about it.

1. For example, when I was at a Native American POW WOW (dance festival [lack of better words] where recognized tribes and some others come to perform culture dances to the public.) Mostly to bring money they sale to "the whites" back to their reservations since the US Government doesn't pay them well since they aren't American citizens (the non-recognized tribes.)

Anyhow. While there, as an African American I was looked a bit more highly upon than the "whites" even to this day because we share personal experiences and history. So, if I knew the people I talked with better, they'd probably tell me a bit more about their culture than they would a white person. That shared experience and/or even respect to the point of not taking advantage of their culture for ones own uses is "asking respect."

2. Asking respect also comes in knowing your boundries when you talk to someone who differs in religion. For example, a Hindu may invite you into their temple but if you interpret their scriptures or act in role of a priest, then that is overstepping your boundaries. If you have earned that right to be in that role or you have asked the priest or authority (which you can ask in person) if you can use sacred text for whatever so be, that's asking permission. Asking permission is also respecting not to put the Quran on a dirty floor. Wearing a Hijab without knowing the significance of it. (Cultural appropriation) Most "asking permission" involves experience in that religion (for example, you can't take the Eucharist unless confirmed in the sacraments of Christ) and/or raised in that faith say many people in the same area are not native american but raised near reservations and involved in some cultural norms.

Asking permission is an action of respect. It is the same thing online.

3. If a Hindu is telling you you are wrong and you consistently say "Hinduism" is part of your faith because you have a Hindu god in it, that is disrespectful. Asking permission is more "I believe this about Krishna is this true? He says no, it is not." You can believe whatever you want, but the fact is it is not true regardless of what you believe. Understanding that boundary is asking permission.

It's the same with most non-universal "old" religions that you consider irrelevant for today's time. So, it's a change of perspection in how you talk with others. Yes, you can say whatever you believe but just know your boundary in saying "until they come to Bahaullah" compared to "Bahai believes that..." You guys do good some of the time. Other times you kinda slip up. No hard feelings. But you can't miss it.

The links are good. Asking permission is one-on-one interaction whether it's talking or more preferable to most people in person. But links help with information. So it's all good.

See! You're slowly getting through to this dense piece of hardwood!!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

See! You're slowly getting through to this dense piece of hardwood!!

huh?

 

[loverofhumanity]

huh?

I mean you're helping me understand. I was only speaking figuratively.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which of course is very hard to do, probably impossible. If we had a time machine, sure. All you can do is read the accounts of many historians, or all that might be available,and then decide for yourself. But a total independent investigation would be impossible at this point.

A person can say they investigated independently, but then a person can say he can scale a ladder to the moon, or say he's the new prophet too.

I've read many accounts of self-proclaimed independent investigators.

Anyone can be wrong but there is relative truth for our age I believe and we can discover it with investigation and research.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I mean you're helping me understand. I was only speaking figuratively.

I dont speak figuratively though. None of your post reflect what I said especially the one where follwers cant interpret their own faith correctly. So..

Huh?