How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, it's different when, like Adrian, he has been both a Baha'i' and a Christian, and therefore can speak a little from experience. But otherwise it's just all vague conjecture. So too with us. I have no idea what it's like to be a Baha'i', but am blocked just by the philosophy itself from ever finding out.

I'm afraid 'goodness' is just another in a long line of vague terms like 'spiritual', 'oneness', and 'unity' that may sound nice but have no real meaning.

Exactly. I notice they talk in we-language. I wonder if it is hard to understand our questions and comments because it's hard to look at a person's spirituality on an individual basis?

I mean, I'm all for humanity but if the religion only recognizes my differences but don't attribute them as their own truth that doesn't reflect their own, like many minorities, we get kinda insulted.

 

[Vinayaka]

Exactly. I notice they talk in we-language. I wonder if it is hard to understand our questions and comments because it's hard to look at a person's spirituality on an individual basis?

I mean, I'm all for humanity but if the religion only recognizes my differences but don't attribute them as their own truth that doesn't reflect their own, like many minorities, we get kinda insulted.

I had to get the 'we' clarified, as to whether it meant 'we' as in all of humanity, or 'we' as in the Baha'i'. Although it took a couple of posts to get it straightened out, the 'we' means we Baha'i'. This was from loverof humanity. I still believe, because of programming, and repeated use of certain language, things often remain vague for a reason. You know how when you hang out with a certain person or within a certain culture long enough, you start talking like thet do. Much like politicians, not wanting to upset anyone, at one time it was most likely a strategy, but now it's just habit. I think when I do it I add Hindus to get we Hindus, but I'm not sure either. Most of the time it's probably just 'I', which makes more sense.

I think I'm far beyond being insulted in this thread, and probably the one doing the insulting by now, unfortunately. But it's helped me understand immovable universalism, and I have respect for strong loyalty. After 40 years it gets really really hard to reprogram the subconscious mind. One of my sampradaya's qualifying rules for entering the monastery is 25 years old or younger. It keeps everyone more aligned in mind.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I had to get the 'we' clarified, as to whether it meant 'we' as in all of humanity, or 'we' as in the Baha'i'. Although it took a couple of posts to get it straightened out, the 'we' means we Baha'i'. This was from loverof humanity. I still believe, because of programming, and repeated use of certain language, things often remain vague for a reason. You know how when you hang out with a certain person or within a certain culture long enough, you start talking like thet do. Much like politicians, not wanting to upset anyone, at one time it was most likely a strategy, but now it's just habit. I think when I do it I add Hindus to get we Hindus, but I'm not sure either. Most of the time it's probably just 'I', which makes more sense.

I think I'm far beyond being insulted in this thread, and probably the one doing the insulting by now, unfortunately. But it's helped me understand immovable universalism, and I have respect for strong loyalty. After 40 years it gets really really hard to reprogram the subconscious mind. One of my sampradaya's qualifying rules for entering the monastery is 25 years old or younger. It keeps everyone more aligned in mind.

I can kinda understand the programmed or indoctrinated mindset. When I was in the Church only four years, I already adopted the we-mindset and language. Actually, it felt nice to say "we believe" because it feels like I was one with the belief of the Church. It's an indoctrinated reminder that one doesn't think a part from the Church/from the body of Christ. But then I was corrected by a few former Catholics on this thread; so, just as a Bahai can't speak as a christian, a person apart from the body of christs can't speak for the body of christ.

I don't know how to talk in we-language a part from the Church if speaking about it, and I'm many Bahai can't speak in I-langauge so I think maybe if we learned how to accomondate to the other person's understanding not just our own would help a lot (and decrease these post by thousands).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I had to get the 'we' clarified, as to whether it meant 'we' as in all of humanity, or 'we' as in the Baha'i'. Although it took a couple of posts to get it straightened out, the 'we' means we Baha'i'. This was from loverof humanity. I still believe, because of programming, and repeated use of certain language, things often remain vague for a reason. You know how when you hang out with a certain person or within a certain culture long enough, you start talking like thet do. Much like politicians, not wanting to upset anyone, at one time it was most likely a strategy, but now it's just habit. I think when I do it I add Hindus to get we Hindus, but I'm not sure either. Most of the time it's probably just 'I', which makes more sense.

I think I'm far beyond being insulted in this thread, and probably the one doing the insulting by now, unfortunately. But it's helped me understand immovable universalism, and I have respect for strong loyalty. After 40 years it gets really really hard to reprogram the subconscious mind. One of my sampradaya's qualifying rules for entering the monastery is 25 years old or younger. It keeps everyone more aligned in mind.

I can kinda understand the programmed or indoctrinated mindset. When I was in the Church only four years, I already adopted the we-mindset and language. Actually, it felt nice to say "we believe" because it feels like I was one with the belief of the Church. It's an indoctrinated reminder that one doesn't think a part from the Church/from the body of Christ. But then I was corrected by a few former Catholics on this thread; so, just as a Bahai can't speak as a christian, a person apart from the body of christs can't speak for the body of christ.

I don't know how to talk in we-language a part from the Church if speaking about it, and I'm many Bahai can't speak in I-langauge so I think maybe if we learned how to accomondate to the other person's understanding not just our own would help a lot (and decrease these post by thousands).

 

[Vinayaka]

(and decrease these post by thousands).

Wishful thinking, lol.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Even basic goodness varies. Take vegetarianism versus non-vegetarianism for example. Then there is this spreading of the 'good' news. So there are cultural variations to 'goodness' too, although it's a topic where there are less variations compared to say, the nature of God.

Another example is proselytizing. Generally the proselytizer figures he's doing good, whereas the victims may later find out it did a ton of harm.

It's interesting how most of us have a basic knowledge of right and wrong, good and bad that's fairly similar. Yet we are all very diverse. So for instance it is forbidden to kill and steal across all religions, nations, races and cultures.

 

[Vinayaka]

It's interesting how most of us have a basic knowledge of right and wrong, good and bad that's fairly similar. Yet we are all very diverse. So for instance it is forbidden to kill and steal across all religions, nations, races and cultures.

Depends on what you mean by kill. In Hinduism ahimsa applies to animals. There are lots of taboos in lots of religions, where other there isn't. The catholic Church forbids birth control, for example. Most people these days, I think. would see birth control as a good thing, given world population, and unloved unwanted children being born. The technology of birth control changed the ethics a lot, so individual faiths had to adapt, or not.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's interesting how most of us have a basic knowledge of right and wrong, good and bad that's fairly similar. Yet we are all very diverse. So for instance it is forbidden to kill and steal across all religions, nations, races and cultures.

No, it isn't.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Blimey, this thread's lasted a good long while.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, it isn't.

Your reasoning?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Blimey, this thread's lasted a good long while.

Hi Scotty! How you doing?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Depends on what you mean by kill. In Hinduism ahimsa applies to animals. There are lots of taboos in lots of religions, where other there isn't. The catholic Church forbids birth control, for example. Most people these days, I think. would see birth control as a good thing, given world population, and unloved unwanted children being born. The technology of birth control changed the ethics a lot, so individual faiths had to adapt, or not.

Baha'is are forbidden birth control as well as abortion unless it's a case of the mother dying then a decision needs to be made or in rape. We are told that meat is unnatural for humans and that people will become vegetarians in the future also because killing of animals is involved so Baha'i is very much ahimsa in nature. Also we are told to abstain from fighting in wars, that it's better to be killed than to kill.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Goodness is defined by someone's religions or worldview. You can't separate the two; that is why each person's "goodness" is different.

For example, what @Vinayaka described with his guru, that "goodness" is completely different than you receive from the house of justice. It's not by different names nor by different expressions.

In my opinion, I wouldn't even put your experience and Vinayaka's experience under the same definition of good. That is why there are different truths.

How do you find similarities among foundations that are extremely different than yours-especially when you haven't experienced them to compare more accurately than a generalization?

Goodness is termed good because it does no harm. That is my understanding. There may be different levels of understanding but goodness is a positive thing as far as I understand it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I notice you only speak in "wes" (well, I notice this long time ago). When you speak in we-s you naturally fall into generalizations. Most of which may be vaguely sound but specifically false.

If my good is killing others and your good is helping others, would my good still be good just by another method or expression?

Remember, expressions are a part of who we are. So, if I murder someone (on purpose), and even made a living out of it, that becomes part of me. Logical, yes. Moral, to some people, no.

I'm watching the t.v. series show Sopranos. I sometimes I watch shows that are not on the air anymore like Star Trek. Saprano, a boss of an organized crime, defines good by how he runs The Business. The deaths at his people's hands were morally sound because the person who was murdered did not owe up to his or her end of the business deal. Some men gamble and owe and loose a limb for not paying. Others end up dead.

But that is his good because it's a business and how he works with clients depends on the client's motives and decisions not his own.​

This is a different expression of goodness, no?

We can't blame it on how he was raised. People have a choice regardless. People think that homosexuality is a choice based on how one is raised. I met many many many straight people who grew up in a similar environment and parents as I do but I am gay.

Of course, goodness isn't genetic since it's a moral trait. Yet, we do define goodness differently . It is not all the same definition.

I don't see goodness as you do. This isn't a different expression of the same truth. We are just totally different people. We have different truths not one.

How can goodness have one definition when there are so many people who define goodness differently? (Different expressions=different definition)

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Remember: If you can't define my peace, then even if I went to a Bahai event, I would not be respected spiritually because in order to do so, you'd have to be interested in the peace I have without reflecting it off of your own.

Times have changed and we live in a very different age so lines have been blurred and to some these things are not clear but to Baha'is , Baha'u'llah has made it very clear what is right and wrong and good and bad and we are very fortunate in that we have God's infallible All Knowing Manifestation to guide us on these matters as well as the Universal House of Justice.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Even basic goodness varies. Take vegetarianism versus non-vegetarianism for example. Then there is this spreading of the 'good' news. So there are cultural variations to 'goodness' too, although it's a topic where there are less variations compared to say, the nature of God.

Another example is proselytizing. Generally the proselytizer figures he's doing good, whereas the victims may later find out it did a ton of harm.

We are fortunate in that we have the infallible Knowledge of Baha'u'llah and the House of Justice to guide us. We know clearly what is right and wrong.

It doesn't mean we don't make mistakes but it does mean that the touchstone is what Baha'u'llah has said. Everything in this age, the wisdom of every decision, the truth of every theory is dependent on what the Manifestation has decreed.

We teach because it is a command of God in this age. It's not an option. The world needs these life giving teachings which I have outlined previously.

'The world with the various calamities that have befallen it, will be completely ravaged and its civilization demolished, if the Bahá’ís do not come to its help and imbue it with the spirit that Bahá’u’lláh has brought to the world.' (Shoghi Effendi)

 

[rabkauhallA]

Krishna is a deity, not a prophet.

How do we explain the others? First we have to prove they even existed. For that, some are harder than others. Past that? Messages from god were all the rage thousands of years ago, and primitive people were eager to eat it up. War is easy when you can justify it with a god.

The modern day Middle East (which seems a millennium behind everyone else) kill in the name of God, and Muslims are desperately trying to get their to die as a martyr in the fight. Education. Education. Education. Job opportunities are almost as important, but teach an uneducated mind that God demands you kill infidels and dying in the fight gets you a crapton of virgins (maybe ugly and immensely obese) but nobody seems to ask that. They just grab a Kalashnikoff and believe everything they've been taught, despite how insane it is.
The old God of the gaps is filling smaller and smaller gaps. Except among jihadists. You could sell most of them oceanfront property in Damascus.

There will always be religion, but I believe in time, advances in science and knowledge of the yet unknown, it will become less prominent. If religion disappeared today, what reason would Islamic terrorists have to kill and suicide bomb.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The modern day Middle East (which seems a millennium behind everyone else) kill in the name of God, and Muslims are desperately trying to get their to die as a martyr in the fight. Education. Education. Education. Job opportunities are almost as important, but teach an uneducated mind that God demands you kill infidels and dying in the fight gets you a crapton of virgins (maybe ugly and immensely obese) but nobody seems to ask that. They just grab a Kalashnikoff and believe everything they've been taught, despite how insane it is.
The old God of the gaps is filling smaller and smaller gaps. Except among jihadists. You could sell most of them oceanfront property in Damascus.

I agree a proper education including to think with their own minds and a good career would see these people turn away from violence

 

[Vinayaka]

Baha'is are forbidden birth control as well as abortion unless it's a case of the mother dying then a decision needs to be made or in rape. We are told that meat is unnatural for humans and that people will become vegetarians in the future also because killing of animals is involved so Baha'i is very much ahimsa in nature. Also we are told to abstain from fighting in wars, that it's better to be killed than to kill.

There is no injunction on birth control in Hinduism. Abortion is considered very unwise.

'Will become vegetarians in the future' sounds like a society of procrastinators, to be honest. The future is now.

 

[Vinayaka]

We are fortunate in that we have the infallible Knowledge of Baha'u'llah and the House of Justice to guide us. We know clearly what is right and wrong.

It doesn't mean we don't make mistakes but it does mean that the touchstone is what Baha'u'llah has said. Everything in this age, the wisdom of every decision, the truth of every theory is dependent on what the Manifestation has decreed.

We teach because it is a command of God in this age. It's not an option. The world needs these life giving teachings which I have outlined previously.

'The world with the various calamities that have befallen it, will be completely ravaged and its civilization demolished, if the Bahá’ís do not come to its help and imbue it with the spirit that Bahá’u’lláh has brought to the world.' (Shoghi Effendi)

Ahhh ... the infallibilty, and absolute truth in the prophet based religions. It must be wonderful not to have to think anything through.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Hi Scotty! How you doing?

I'm doing alright. How about you?