How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Ha ha a few more words to add each time

Never was one of so many words. Tried to find the paitence to write....that is one of the woes I add.

Any time any person of any religion starts speaking as if their beliefs were fact, and it's with members of other faiths, you're just asking for trouble. Most people are quite capable of making the effort. Some, of course, actually can't, and continue speaking as if they were at church, or in a group where everyone speaks that way. However, this is a public forum, and this particular one is a debate forum. I'm not speaking here right now as a Hindu, but as a communicator. To reiterate, it is just a suggestion.

 

[Vinayaka]

SIN is Anything that is not Pure Good, that is not of God.

Thus how free will operates.

God created all Good for us to know and Love God in doing this evil, all the opposites became possible.

We are then born into this world given the ability and guidance to obtain to all that is good.

The quote to me says the more we find that good within us, the more we find how far from God we were.

To me the quote is the path to Humility.

Yes, that is the Bahai view. Hindus like me, since we don't believe in intrinsic evil, will beg to differ. it is not fact, it is your belief.

 

[Vinayaka]

That's good we are understanding each other better now and I have no disagreement with the Baha'i faith fitting into how you have defined syncretism in this post. The problem is that's it's an ambiguous term that has several meanings, including those that don't apply to the Baha'i Faith. It has taken us a while to come an agreement about this so it is a term that can clearly cause confusion and discord. Part of the problem is it's pejorative usage. Scholars also recognise these problems. Therefore I support the Baha'i position of not wishing to be identified with this label. Is that so unreasonable?

Unfortunately, whether we wish it or not, others will continue to use labels that we disagree with. It happens to all faiths. Sometimes pointing it out will increase it's usage. If individuals don't want to take the time to learn, they don't.

 

[Vinayaka]

No I make no judgement. I just share what has been written.

Sorry, but you certainly did make a judgement. You said that if people don't listen to prophets, they don't listen to God. By so doing, you've managed to judge and insult all adherents of non-prophet based religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, that is the Bahai view. Hindus like me, since we don't believe in intrinsic evil, will beg to differ. it is not fact, it is your belief.

That is great as we also do not beleive in intrinsic evil, how it is currently portrayed.

Abdul'baha has given good explanations on this subject.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That is great as we also do not beleive in intrinsic evil, how it is currently portrayed.

Abdul'baha has given good explanations on this subject.

lol, You mention evil in a lot of your posts, Tony. Do you know what 'intrinsic' means?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry, but you certainly did make a judgement. You said that if people don't listen to prophets, they don't listen to God. By so doing, you've managed to judge and insult all adherents of non-prophet based religions.

I do not give the advice or make the Judgement, I am but a man like you finding His way. It is great we get to decide what is the advice we wish to pursue.

All I can do is share what has been given.

Thus I could post quotes on this aspect if you wish. Then you see it is not me that has said this.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

lol, You mention evil in a lot of your posts, Tony. Do you know what 'intrinsic' means?

Yes I looked up all the meanings and noted quite a few of those can be tossed over the shoulder and a few are applicable with further explanations, would you like to read some ideas?

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Which Muslim scholars were these?

Here are some. There are many. Some of them are mentioned in Persian Articles, and I cannot find English Translation. But these are in English which can easily be found:

Mírzá Abu'l-Fadl - Wikipedia

Hají Ákhúnd - Wikipedia

DĀRĀBĪ SAYYED YAḤYĀ – Encyclopaedia Iranica

Adíb - Wikipedia

Ibn-i-Abhar - Wikipedia

Mírzá Mahmúd - Wikipedia

Núrayn-i-Nayyirayn - Wikipedia


Bahaullah also names some of them in the Book of Certitude.

 

[siti]

That's good we are understanding each other better now and I have no disagreement with the Baha'i faith fitting into how you have defined syncretism in this post. The problem is that's it's an ambiguous term that has several meanings, including those that don't apply to the Baha'i Faith. It has taken us a while to come an agreement about this so it is a term that can clearly cause confusion and discord. Part of the problem is it's pejorative usage. Scholars also recognise these problems. Therefore I support the Baha'i position of not wishing to be identified with this label. Is that so unreasonable?

As an objection to the application of an ambiguous label that may be a misrepresentation of the nature of the Baha'i faith, not at all unreasonable but that then means that the Baha'i faith is either:

1. An entirely new revelation or

2. "a complex product of original thought and original recombination of ideas already present in the world" - as per the part of the quote that you did agree with

So the question I asked in my previous post remain - to rephrase the question again:

What is fundamentally new or original about it that was not already present in the world as a religious idea?

 

[Vinayaka]

I do not give the advice or make the Judgement, I am but a man like you finding His way. It is great we get to decide what is the advice we wish to pursue.

All I can do is share what has been given.

But you believe what has been given. You believe what your prophet has said, right. So what he says, you say. Why give quotes of someone you agree with.

So if Person A insults Person B, and you say, "I agree with Person A," then by simple inference, you are also insulting Person B.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes I looked up all the meanings and noted quite a few of those can be tossed over the shoulder and a few are applicable with further explanations, would you like to read some ideas?

No thanks. I know what 'intrinsic' means.

 

[Vinayaka]

Here are some. There are many. Some of them are mentioned in Persian Articles, and I cannot find English Translation. But these are in English which can easily be found:

Mírzá Abu'l-Fadl - Wikipedia

Hají Ákhúnd - Wikipedia

DĀRĀBĪ SAYYED YAḤYĀ – Encyclopaedia Iranica

Adíb - Wikipedia

Ibn-i-Abhar - Wikipedia

Mírzá Mahmúd - Wikipedia

Núrayn-i-Nayyirayn - Wikipedia


Bahaullah also names some of them in the Book of Certitude.

They all became Baha'i'?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

They all became Baha'i'?

I think almost all with exception of Vahid yahya Darabi, became Bahai. I know yahya Darabi believed in the Bab, and was Martyred before Manifestation of Bahaullah. Here is another one, who became Bahai in more recent years:

Bahai stories: Muhammad Movahed

 

[Vinayaka]

I think almost all with exception of Vahid yahya Darabi, became Bahai. I know yahya Darabi believed in the Bab, and was Martyred before Manifestation of Bahaullah. Here is another one, who became Bahai in more recent years:

Bahai stories: Muhammad Movahed

I think where the confusion came on my part was that we have different ideas of 'many'. Considering the number of scholars there would have been in Iran at that time, I would consider even a hundred even as relatively few. So these things are all relative. Obviously there were far more who didn't convert. Else Iran would be a Baha'i' country today.

 

[RoaringSilence]

But you believe what has been given. You believe what your prophet has said, right. So what he says, you say. Why give quotes of someone you agree with.

So if Person A insults Person B, and you say, "I agree with Person A," then by simple inference, you are also insulting Person B.

remember when i showed that vid about kalki avatar , and adrian quickly jumps on prophecy .. that's completely where their entire focus is built and thrives upon ..that was the focus even for mohd. since he knew that the coming of christ was "prophesied" and that's exactly why he wanted no one else to exploit it so he was labeled the last one.

their focus is pretty clear ..find only the things in all regions that strengthen bahubali's case. end of story. they don't want to know philosophy is off sync they don't care what reincarnation impact and depth is ..nor karma nor evolution ..its all about finding prophecy for the next coming in all religions and shaping it to one direction .

even tho they have no clue that who and what kalki means . LMAO.

that's why without even bothering to reply the concerns they simply threat me to either view bahubali equal to krishna or repent i lost my chance. too bad i know a little more than they think .

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But you believe what has been given. You believe what your prophet has said, right. So what he says, you say. Why give quotes of someone you agree with.

So if Person A insults Person B, and you say, "I agree with Person A," then by simple inference, you are also insulting Person B.

Taking somthing that is a gift as an insult is always a problem we face.

That is why I love RoaringSilence All said is a meant as a gift.

I would assume your offers are given with the same heart. How can I be offended?

Baha'u'llah allowed an old lady to cast a rock in his face, as He saw she thought it a meritorious thing to do in the love of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think where the confusion came on my part was that we have different ideas of 'many'. Considering the number of scholars there would have been in Iran at that time, I would consider even a hundred even as relatively few. So these things are all relative. Obviously there were far more who didn't convert. Else Iran would be a Baha'i' country today.

The method was to slaughter any that accepted the New Faith, thus it is easy to see why not many chose the path.

Strong Faith is a gift and not for the faint hearted. No one knows what they are willing to give for Faith, unless faced by the choices. God only gives what we can face and learn from.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think where the confusion came on my part was that we have different ideas of 'many'. Considering the number of scholars there would have been in Iran at that time, I would consider even a hundred even as relatively few. So these things are all relative. Obviously there were far more who didn't convert. Else Iran would be a Baha'i' country today.

So, do you believe, numbers of converts is a measure of truth of a Revelation? If not, What does it measure? I believe, only the best ones were successful in recognition of a new Revelation. Those who were unbiased. But the point being made, is some of these converts were Islam leads, who had studied Islam in special schools, and had become teachers of Islam and the Muslims prayer leads, and became the followers of the Bab or Bahaullah, who did not study Religions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Off to work, I will look at this tonight.

To get the Greater Peace first we need the Lesser as the foundation.

Thus the time we live in is building the Lesser Peace, we should talk about the design of that foundation, that will cement in place the Lesser and then Most Great Peace.

Regards Tony

I'ma brief the last post and keep it short (crosses her fingers)

I disagree with starting with lesser peace as a foundation. That is external. A kind-hearted person could have grown up in an environment where guns and killing others save his life and family. A cruel hearted person could have been raised in a loving neighborhood and family but his predisposition of empathy is less than most people.

It has to be internal. That's why there are converts. People internally realize what they been taught (external) and what they believe (internal) conflict with each other and they side for the latter.

Once we have lesser world peace, many people will still have no god. People will still go through rebirth.

We need to go beyond this... It''s been discussed for 11460 posts already about lesser peace and bahai views.