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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I honestly cannot understand Bahai text. I does give me a literal headache. So far I got, though, is Bahai's greater peace goal (In addition to what's already quoted) is to be like god?
For example, some Bahai here mirrored himself to Hindu. Hinduis believe, so far I know, is after many stages of reincarnation, one becomes one with Brahma. Does Bahai follow that line of thinking?
RoaringSilence
Active Member
every child in india can predict who will win the next election and the party that ruled for 60 years will continue to lose its power some of us can also predict war or peace we just have to read the news and make a judgement .
let me give you scientific discoveries prophecy to your taste
there are elements in the earth that are undiscovered which can improve the environment and decontaminate toxins .
there will be faster and faster ways of travel yet to come.
There will be better medicines to treat ill health which hasn't yet been found.
many new herbs will be cross bread to make hybrid herbs which will be beneficial.
One of the losing football teams with unlikely odds will win the world cup
-roaring silence
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In general, yes, when it blocks one's understanding of The Buddha's teachings (in this case), then it is a distraction. Here is a similar one I think you'd like.
63. Cūḷamālunkya Sutta: The Shorter Discourse to Mālunkyāputta
A lot of questions I asked were clarification questions that keeps blocking discussion and keeping it in circles. It's best if one is discussing a particular point, after stating our views on that point, to go deeper (if one wishes to converse) to understand each other. Without that, it goes nowhere.
I like The Buddha's words because he does spend a lot of time explaining in analogies why the disciples who ask him questions are still at a lost to reach enlightenment. More so dialogues rather than statements of truths as in abrahamic text.
I can't think of anymore reflection than this, really.Time for me to rise and shine.
That is an excellent Sutta to share. It highlights exactly the point in question, the practicality of Buddhist's teachings over metaphysical concerns. They are simple straightforward teachings that are both easy to understand and to put into practice.
The four noble truths and the eightfold path is very practical too and I can not fault any of it.
The Importance of the Four Noble Truths in Buddhism
Buddhism - The Eightfold Path
The Sutta you have shared deliberately avoids the question of the existence of God or gods, the soul, and life after death. Are you aware of any Suttas that lean one way or the other?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
This is a great question. I was looking it up based on what I already know and found this cartoon that may lighten the mood on this thread.
be continued...
Yes, that is the Baha'i belief. Not fact. Not one I share.
Well, they do, in my opinion. They're contradictory at times. But you're free to disagree, obviously. You say you respect all religions, and then tell us we're wrong. You won't see that as a contradiction, but I do.
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Since this applies to what happened in a small corner of Iran 200 odd years ago ....
Some days I don't think you read what you wrote. Do you even realise what what you stated is that the Baha'i' are right and the rest of us are blind? How insulting is that! To think that you also claim you want to help with unity or co-operation this planet? It certainly isn't helping to call all of us blind.
OK read the whole Story. I am glad I did. It really explains the Messages of all the Great Beings perfectly, I found the end of the Last passage very interesting;
"All the living beings who escape the threefold world are given the enjoyments of buddhas-meditation, liberation, and so forth. All are of one character and one type. praised by sages and capable of producing pure, wonderful, supreme happiness.
"Shariputra, the eIder at first attracted his children with the three carriages and afterward gave them just one great carriage decorated with jeweIs, which was the safest and most comfortable carriage. Yet the man is not guilty of lying. The Tathagata does the same. There is no falsehood in teaching three vehicles first, to attract living beings, and afterward using just the Great Vehicle to save them. Why? Because the Tathagata has Dharma storehouses of immeasurable wisdom, power, and freedom from fear. He can give all living beings the Great Vehicle Dharma. But not all are able to receive it. For this reason, Shariputra, you should understand that the buddhas use the power of skillfull means, thus making distinctions within the One Buddha- Vehicle and teaching the three."
There is so much in this story, in the 2nd last passage I can see great Prophecy, telling of the future albeit in a different frame of reference;
"Shariputra, the elder, seeing his children safely out of the burning house and no longer threatened, thought about his immeasurable wealth and gave each of his children a great carriage. The Tathagata does the same. He is the father of all living beings. He sees innumerable thousands of millions of beings escape from the suffering of the threefold world, from the fearful and perilous path, through the gateway of teachlngs of the Buddha, and thus gain the joys of nirvana. Then the Tathagata thinks: 'I have Dharma storehouses of buddhas, with immeasurable, unlimited wisdom, power, and freedom from fear. AlI these living beings are my children. I will give the Great Vehicle to them equally, so that no one will reach extinction individually, but all gain the same extinction as the Tathagata.'
Regards Tony
Having sight or blindness is a metaphor for having perfect spiritual perception and insight compared to being bereft of any such qualities. Most of us here have degrees of spiritual insight. We are all insightful and all blind to some degree, atheists included. The one who imagines himself to have more than others, simply has his own form of blindness as we all do. It was certainly not my intention to claim anyone here has any more or any less spiritual than anyone else, or to claim that the Baha'is are more enlightened.
There are strong words and it would be interesting to look at the countries who do supress religious freedoms and consider where they stand with other human rights issues. With globalisation and living in a multicultural world the exchange and sharing of different perspectives is an inevitability. To try to stop it or slow it down seems like an exercise in frustration or futility. Of course culture is affected too but we can not reverse this trend anymore than we can stop the tides coming in and out.
In regards to superiority, do you ever feel just the slightest bit better as you have the faith that correctly identifies the truth of reincarnation while the rest of us haven't quite got it yet?
Thank you for your unrelenting efforts to keep the Baha'is here, myself included, honest and calling us to account.
Baha'is have a world view that recognising the Manifestations of God and following Their teachings is what God requires of us. This is an assistance to ourselves in both this world and the world to come.
On the other hand no one can judge another soul. The word God in many social circles in your country and mine have become empty words. Religion has fallen into disrepute, the stars have fallen from heaven, and the celestial bodies dimmed. We live in post-Christian countries. An atheist may best exemply the teachings of Christ, whereas one who identifies with His name may rever a man made shell of doctrines and dogmas devoid of any spirit.
Good to see you back.
I don't think we can identify any culture that hasn't had some religious belief. Perhaps it begins with some form of animism and then attributing spiritual powers to larger bodies such as the sun, moon, stars, mountains, forests etc. It is not hard to imagine the evolution of beliefs in gods in this way and then to see allegory and symbolism in stories that weave such dieties together. I'm sure there would have been spiritually elightened peoples that could provide meaning and uplift the human condition through such beliefs but they certainly had their dark side too. Having said that, I don't really know much about the vast multitudes of polytheistic belief systems. Clearly a great deal of effort was made by Moses and the Hebrew prophets to promote monothesim and to strongly discourage the Jews from worshipping other gods, such as Baal.
During the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, and then Roman periods did these empires influence Hebrew culture and thought? Almost certainly. Did Jesus use the language of His culture and people to explain spiritual truths. How could He not? Did His Teachings transcend these cultural influences to give birth to a new theology, distinct from these cultural influences as well as Judaism? Yes.
The teachings of love God, love your neighbor and enemy, and forgive them would have greatly assisted Christianity rising above any man made influences and additions to Christianity, don't you think?
I don't know of too many children writing to the Kings and rulers of the world, praising some, chastising others and predicting their downfall. The empire of Napoleon III came crumbling down soon after he received Baha'ullah's letter. He was alleged to have said, if this man is God, then I am two gods.
In the year 1869 Bahá’u’lláh wrote to Napoleon III, rebuking him for his lust of war and for the contempt with which he had treated a former letter from Bahá’u’lláh. The Epistle contains the following stern warning:—
For what thou has done, thy kingdom shall be thrown into confusion, and thine empire shall pass from thine hands, as a punishment for that which thou has wrought. Then wilt thou know how thou has plainly erred. Commotions shall seize all the people in that land, unless thou arisest to held this Cause, and followest Him Who is the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) in this, the Straight Path. Hath thy pomp made thee proud? By My Life! It shall not endure; nay, it shall soon pass away, unless thou holdest fast by this firm Cord. We see abasement hastening after thee, whilst thou art of the heedless.
Needless to say, Napoleon, who was then at the zenith of his power, paid no heed to this warning. In the following year he went to war with Prussia, firmly convinced that his troops could easily gain Berlin; but the tragedy foretold by Bahá’u’lláh overwhelmed him. He was defeated at Saarbruck, at Weisenburg, at Metz, and finally in the crushing catastrophe at Sedan. He was then carried prisoner to Prussia, and came to a miserable end in England two years later. 238 Germany
Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 237-242
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
In your interpretation of the story, is it The Buddha that saves living beings today?
In other words, does Bahai believe that The Buddha himself saves living beings?
Do you believe if The Buddha did not exist, we would not have the ability to be saved during The Buddha's time period?
(In the sect I practice and in other suttas the word liberation is used. Also, the Lotus Sutra is a Mahayana text while theravada goes off the Pali text; so, you'll hear different modern interpretations in the former while different wordings that I'd go off of in the latter.)
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That's nice and simple.
The subconscious mind, when relaxed, often says what it truly thinks. I believe you meant what you said, and are now trying to wiggle your way out of it. But there's nothing wrong with Baha'i's thinking they have sight while the rest of us are blind. What's wrong is when it's broadcast to us, while at the same time proposing love for humanity and unity.
I recognise that other people's beliefs are valid for them, and don't try to alter their beliefs, other than the ones that apply to my faith. But that's more for the outsider, just so they get the alternative view. But as I've indicated lots, everyone should think their own faith is the best for them. The superiority comes in when you think it's best for others. When ordering at a restaurant, if one person orders for everyone else, he thinks he knows what's best. If he orders peanuts for a person with peanut allergy, that person will die.