How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

This would be the same "thou shalt not kill" Moses who commanded the genocide of Midian and capital punishment for violation of a religious law?

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against Jehovah in the matter of Peor, and so the plague was among the congregation of Jehovah. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:15-17

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. And Jehovah said unto Moses, The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses.
Numbers 15:32-36
​

If (he said, repeating himself ad nauseum) the stories of Krishna are not historical, how could he be a divine Manifestation?

This would be the same Muhammad peace-loving Muhammad who wrote:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. Sura 9:29

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment. Sura 5:33

Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward. Sura 4:95​

First about Muhammad. The historical context, There was a war of genocide against the Muslims. He had every right to defend His people against the murderous Quraysh who for no justified reason sought the extinction and extermination of all Muslims.

Sura 2:190

Attack only if attacked. Do not attack first. God does not support aggression.

Krishna we believe existed just like Adam but we believe some stories in the Bible were allegorical not real occurrences and put there for our education. The story of Adam and Eve is not factual but teaches about disobedience to God and so on. The story of the Bhagavad-Gita was meant for the soul if you read it. It is about fighting desire and turning to God.

With Moses it must be remembered that the plagues were often used as a last resort to bring about a change in conditions or justice. In those days there were no police or courts or judges so crimes committed had to be punished with a view to being a deterrent as well.

It took plagues to free the Hebrews from slavery.

In our day, it might take a Third World War to drive us to establish peace. It's man's obstinacy and refusal to walk the right path that ends up in us having us to be shown we are wrong through suffering. A last resort but sometimes the only way we will learn.

If there were a third war, God would not stop it and allow us to suffer so we will begin to value peace. Otherwise millions will continue to starve while the rich get richer and wars will continue and nothing will improve.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Apparently they omitted the heathens and Hindus, because we've never heard of it. But hey, we're used to being second class citizens, lol.

Christ came for all humanity so everyone has had the chance to hear if it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I have seen no evidence of that, other than Bahais patting themselves on the back. I much prefer multiculturalism and strong independent faiths that respect each other as wonderful people, a solidarity in diversity, not some melting pot of uniformity. Different food, different music, and much much more. the world is such a wondrous place.

Diversity will never be lost. If you really want to see diversity then go to a large Baha'i celebration with a pot luck dinner!

Multiculturalism is good and I like it myself.

I love different foods too. I have favourite dishes and they are all international. My favourite vegetarian dish are the Hare Krishna's - Prashadum. Then Indian Bryant and the Sweet and Sour Chinese. I like country music and Indian Bollywood songs a lot.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The main difference is that this was Promised humanity thousands of years ago. Christians in the Lord's Prayer have been praying for God's Kingdom to come - well it's here now.

How do you build world peace with people who have different foundations and dont agree with this new system?

To have world peace, there MUST be agreement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, I try and answer every question but you make many comments and I may not have replied to every comment. Just make sure it is a question and I will try and answer it.

It's morning here now and I've maybe not answered it yet. Which post are you referring to?

The church never received a Revelation from God. There is no such thing. It all comes from the Bible. It was Jesus Who received the Revelation.

The Church/body of christ foundation is on Jesus hence the Eucharist. If it were Peter, it would be peter in the Eucharist. Jesus teachings are from god and his revelations are from god. God-jesus, jesus-apostles, apostles formsd the Church.

Look at it spiritually not physically since that is hard to do.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only the System brought by Baha'u'llah can work and bring the Most Great Peace as it is God's System not man made.a man made system cannot work.

You said everyone has started building this world peace without them knowing it. Now I know this is a false claim.

This is not a universal religion. Universal religions dont have one person calling shots. Peace (greater one) has no founder. Maybe lesser peace has one because of government issues but greater peace is

Union and agreement

With all people involved. Without respect and their agreement with the bahullah message above, there is no world peace. Its just like christianity. Nothing wrong with that as long as one acknowledges it

 

[loverofhumanity]

You said everyone has started building this world peace without them knowing it. Now I know this is a false claim.

This is not a universal religion. Universal religions dont have one person calling shots. Peace (greater one) has no founder. Maybe lesser peace has one because of government issues but greater peace is

Union and agreement

With all people involved. Without respect and their agreement with the bahullah message above, there is no world peace. Its just like christianity. Nothing wrong with that as long as one acknowledges it

Only Baha'is are building the Most Great Peace. Baha'is promote the Lesser Peace but will not establish it.

The Most Great Peace we believe can only happen when the laws of Baha'u'llah become adopted worldwide and for that to happen the majority of humanity will have had to come to agreement with Baha'u'llah and that will take centuries.

The Most Great Peace cannot happen without the world agreeing to Baha'u'llah because only His administration is capable of uniting humanity. Whatever system man has erected has totally failed to bring world peace. God's system will not fail and that is the unique thing about Baha'u'llah's Revelation in that it is not just a religion or way of life but a New World System which has totally new laws and which functions according to specific instructions. Even how to consult properly is defined in the Baha'i Teachings, something you will never find anywhere else in the world.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Lesser Peace will be world peace amongst the governments and nations but not between religions. It will be a world peace but not THE world peace everyone has been waiting for.

The Most Great Peace, centuries later, will be that peace when all religions become one religion and all people as brothers and sisters. They may not believe in God now but after many centuries that may change.

The latter contradicts your other post. If Bahaullahs system is used for it, and you agree not all people need to believe in god, his world peace is lesser. We can probably agree on politics but Not spirituality.

If bahai believe in god, all people need to either believe in god or find agreement from BOTH parties that believe in god can br compromised

For the greater peace of the whole: spiritual peace

Without that agreement, its always a lesser good.

SGI lesser peace would be having multiple religions coexist and politics run by their respective governments

Their greater peace is everyone tonchant diamoku, believe in the gohonzon, and look up to Diasoku Ikeda (their Sensai) for guidence.

I just dont separate peace into sections. Once greater peace happens, then as a result, lesser peace does. Greater peace has no founder.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The latter contradicts your other post. If Bahaullahs system is used for it, and you agree not all people need to believe in god, his world peace is lesser. We can probably agree on politics but Not spirituality.

If bahai believe in god, all people need to either believe in god or find agreement from BOTH parties that believe in god can br compromised

For the greater peace of the whole: spiritual peace

Without that agreement, its always a lesser good.

SGI lesser peace would be having multiple religions coexist and politics run by their respective governments

Their greater peace is everyone tonchant diamoku, believe in the gohonzon, and look up to Diasoku Ikeda (their Sensai) for guidence.

I just dont separate peace into sections. Once greater peace happens, then as a result, lesser peace does. Greater peace has no founder.

Our goal is the spiritual peace which will take centuries to establish. The other Peace will be better than what we have now but not the Great Peace the world is waiting for. It will all happen in stages. You know? League of Nations, United Nations then World Parliament. Like that.

But for the Baha'is it will include the unity of all religions into one religion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Only Baha'is are building the Most Great Peace. Baha'is promote the Lesser Peace but will not establish it.

The Most Great Peace we believe can only happen when the laws of Baha'u'llah become adopted worldwide and for that to happen the majority of humanity will have had to come to agreement with Baha'u'llah and that will take centuries.

The Most Great Peace cannot happen without the world agreeing to Baha'u'llah because only His administration is capable of uniting humanity. Whatever system man has erected has totally failed to bring world peace. God's system will not fail and that is the unique thing about Baha'u'llah's Revelation in that it is not just a religion or way of life but a New World System which has totally new laws and which functions according to specific instructions. Even how to consult properly is defined in the Baha'i Teachings, something you will never find anywhere else in the world.

Read my last sentence (edit: in my last post).

1. Greater peace has no founder.

2. It has to have union and agreement

3. It has to be spiritual

4. It has to respect other religions and their boundaries

Your greater peace is like christianity, them vs me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But for the Baha'is it will include the unity of all religions into one religion.

Do you Understand the problem in this?

Will you at least have interest in the other partys point of view and see and have interest to understand why they feel as they do?

-

Its not about your view anymore. We know your beliefs. Do you want to know ours AND find interest and understanding of our rejections to religious unity?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

I'm trying to shrink my replies as much as possible so you are actually reading what I say.

For example

1. Fact: Christianity does not predict the coming of Bahaullah

2. Belief: Bahai belief says that it does

Anyone can believe whatever they want but you are specifically wanting to put all religions into one. To do this,

your belief must be based on facts not your personal belief system.

If not, it is a self-centered religion just as all other religions except for Universalist Unitarian.

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you admit that and respect other people's boundaries. (Which, this, I feel is a greater peace.)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Read my last sentence (edit: in my last post).

1. Greater peace has no founder.

2. It has to have union and agreement

3. It has to be spiritual

4. It has to respect other religions and their boundaries

Your greater peace is like christianity, them vs me.

What you are saying is the greater peace is for you and everyone what we call the Lesser Peace.

The Most Great Oeace as it is known is brought by Baha'u'llah and it involves His Institutions.

The Most Great Peace we are referring to is when the world will turn to Baha'u'llah which might take centuries. Before then there will be a political peace.

we have all the different religious and political systems in earth now and they have been unable to achieve peace.

Thr Bahá'í System will achieve it easily. There will only be one religion in the future. There will be no more divisions like now.

The Lesser Peace over time will evolve into the Most Great Peace as the world begins to adopt Baha'u'llah's World Order.

 

[loverofhumanity]

@loverofhumanity

I'm trying to shrink my replies as much as possible so you are actually reading what I say.

For example

1. Fact: Christianity does not predict the coming of Bahaullah

2. Belief: Bahai belief says that it does

Anyone can believe whatever they want but you are specifically wanting to put all religions into one. To do this,

your belief must be based on facts not your personal belief system.

If not, it is a self-centered religion just as all other religions except for Universalist Unitarian.

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you admit that and respect other people's boundaries. (Which, this, I feel is a greater peace.)

The Bible speaks of the Second Coming. All Christians agree with this.

And Christ says when He comes He will unite all religions into one religion. He called His followers His sheep.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

We say that Baha'u'llah fulfills the Second Coming but Christians do not accept this. That's their prerogative.

My beliefs are based on facts and Words of the Bible. Words Christ spoke not my own words. Christ said He would bring the followers (sheep) who are not in His religion and maker of them one religion. One world religion which is exactly what Baha'u'llah has done.

Please read the Words of Jesus in the Gospels to verify this,

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you Understand the problem in this?

Will you at least have interest in the other partys point of view and see and have interest to understand why they feel as they do?

-

Its not about your view anymore. We know your beliefs. Do you want to know ours AND find interest and understanding of our rejections to religious unity?

Of course.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You said everyone has started building this world peace without them knowing it. Now I know this is a false claim.

This is not a universal religion. Universal religions dont have one person calling shots. Peace (greater one) has no founder. Maybe lesser peace has one because of government issues but greater peace is

Union and agreement

With all people involved. Without respect and their agreement with the bahullah message above, there is no world peace. Its just like christianity. Nothing wrong with that as long as one acknowledges it

I said people have been implementing some of the teachings of Baha'u'llah without knowing such as human rights and status of women etc

To us it's God's religion. He's the owner and He does what He please with His own religions . He has the right to start new one and abrogate older religions. He is God and He has that right.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you build world peace with people who have different foundations and dont agree with this new system?

To have world peace, there MUST be agreement.

Very slowly and gradually. Little by little day by day.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bible speaks of the Second Coming. All Christians agree with this.

And Christ says when He comes He will unite all religions into one religion. He called His followers His sheep.

John 10:16

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

We say that Baha'u'llah fulfills the Second Coming but Christians do not accept this. That's their prerogative.

My beliefs are based on facts and Words of the Bible. Words Christ spoke not my own words. Christ said He would bring the followers (sheep) who are not in His religion and maker of them one religion. One world religion which is exactly what Baha'u'llah has done.

Please read the Words of Jesus in the Gospels to verify this,

i

I have many times and studied as a christian (with experience and knowledge). Jesus (John 10:16) is talking about the jews and gentiles and he saves only those who come to him to know the father. Christianity is not a univeralist religion.

To be saved and be a brother and sister in christ you cannot be bahai.

---

Again.

Are you interested in learning the Facts of other religions that conflict with yours?

Are you interested in learning the facts from a christian, hindu, muslim, buddhist as knowledge that is true and fact and not their perspective or matter of opinion?

-

As you noticed, I defended Catholicism, Buddhist, and Hindu. I no longer practice Catholicism and Buddhism (although I am the former by sacrament and latter by belief) and I am not a Hindu in any sense of the word,

But I can defend them (with their permission) because I have interest in knowing what THEY believe, how they interpret their own scripture, how they see their scripture, and purpose of practice. I have interest in not having their beliefs misinterpreted because

Catholicism has been belittled by you, non christians, and many protestants alike. I dont like it.

Buddhism has been basterdized by America and made new agish and I see this then I hear you say The Buddha supports god, I faint.

Then a Hindu is literally telling you (and bahais) you are flat out wrong and you do not take his and their voice into consideration as FACT not matter of perspective and opinion and it is Their faith not yours.

We know your beliefs. I have considered your beliefs as fact. I admit point blank it does not make sense and the more I read it it also makes me feel ill. I stopped practicing catholicism one of many reasons is because I dont want to be a part of human sacrifice. CA annoys as well.

If youre not interested in others facts that conflict with your own, you can quote bahai words all day and what you feel scripture of these selective religions believe of you, but without listening to practitioners (not ex-practitioners bahais), it wont go anywhere.

You need to show interest in other peoples facts or your belief is a matter of opinion until you understand why you are factually wrong regardless of what you believe is right.

Read this in full. Take your time.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I said people have been implementing some of the teachings of Baha'u'llah without knowing such as human rights and status of women etc

I think you were talking to Ragin Pagan about women not me. You said post back that people are following bahaullahs teachings without knowing it.

To us it's God's religion. He's the owner and He does what He please with His own religions . He has the right to start new one and abrogate older religions. He is God and He has that right.

We know what you believe. Are you interested in considering our beliefs as facts or just beliefs?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course.

Expand. Anyone can say of course. Support your answer.