How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vaderecta]

I'd appreciate it if you cared enough about this to learn how to spell Gandhi.

Should it be Gandhy? My indian history is rusty but the name wasn't in english and consists of characters that have a H which no one pronounces in english so that name must have a H in there somewhere... where shall we put it? (If it's not pronounced in any event does anyone really care about the conveyance of the idea or are they more concerned that others must conform to their prescribed understanding?)

In any event, Didn't Gandhi refuse his wife medication when she got sick and watched her die while later growing sick and taking his prescribed medicine? Was he at one time a pen-pal of Hitler?

I don't hold the latter against him but letting his wife die I find abhorrent. Have you seen Gandhi on ERB?

 

[Vinayaka]

Yet this has been the basis for the most successful religions to date.

Now that is incredibly debatable. Successful? How so. In aggressively wiping out other religions. I don't see that as success at all. Failure. They've wiped out tons of knowledge. In North America alone over 500 languages were lost because of the European invasions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Simply not true. It is getting better. Too slow for some, yes.

Terrorism, the environment, the refugees are descent problems and new ones on top of the already large list of problems we have.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Gaddafi used a similar hierarchial system in Libya, where village councils voted, then reported upward. Everyone got a say. I certainly agree that our current system of democracy is flawed. But I don't see the solution in extensive over organising either. I see it in individual change.

The Baha'i System involves both the transformation of the individual and society. Because it's voluntary it will take centuries. Until people can see the Baha'i Order visibly enough to compare it with other systems it has, then humanity will basically ignore it, but even now it is becoming noticed as it has succeeded in bringing together previously hostile and antagonistic races, religions and nationalities which governments are grappling with today and are not having as much success with things like multiculturalism because of assimilation, whereas the Baha'is do not have problems of assimilation as we consider ourselves 'one people'. We identify ourselves not with our race or religious background but with our common humanity.

So the Baha'i Community is a 'sample' of a world without nationalism or religious antagonism and hostilities. For instance Baha'is from Hindu and Muslim backgrounds or Jewish and Muslim or Christian and Buddhist, all have no discrepancies or misunderstandings whereas outside there is conflict and wars, disputes and prejudices.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Now that is incredibly debatable. Successful? How so. In aggressively wiping out other religions. I don't see that as success at all. Failure. They've wiped out tons of knowledge. In North America alone over 500 languages were lost because of the European invasions.

There is that too.

I'm looking at Christianity's capacity to positively affect the spiritual, moral, and intellectual lives of millions of people over nearly two thousand years. I don't deny the violence and atrocities that have been perpetrated by so called 'Christian' and 'civilised' nations.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Both of you want world peace. SGI wants everyone to follow Nichiren Shonin, chant Diamoku, and look up to Diasoku Ikeda for guidence towards world peace. I practiced with them for four years. You just say it by a different name and have god in your foundation.

How can yu build world peace and why would you change the definition of world peace for others by this new system?

No ones changing the definition of peace. Baha'u'llah came to bring the Most Great Peace but said the Lesser Peace would come first. The Kingdom of God, this Divine System, was Promised to humanity thousands of years ago.

 

[Vinayaka]

In any event, Didn't Gandhi refuse his wife medication when she got sick and watched her die while later growing sick and taking his prescribed medicine? Was he at one time a pen-pal of Hitler?

He was a friend of Tolstoy's, but this is the first time I've heard the wife story, not that I know much at all. Guy has a ton of statues all over the place in India.

Himmler was the Nazi that used the Bhagavad Gita in part to justify his version of a 'just' war.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is that too.

I'm looking at Christianity's capacity to positively affect the spiritual, moral, and intellectual lives of millions of people over nearly two thousand years. I don't deny the violence and atrocities that have been perpetrated by so called 'Christian' and 'civilised' nations.

Yes, I do know a ton of great people. Any large faith like that will have a spectrum of humanity.

 

[Vinayaka]

Terrorism, the environment, the refugees are descent problems and new ones on top of the already large list of problems we have.

But look at the progress too. Abolition of slavery, women's rights, the end of some nasty dictators. It goes both ways.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, I do know a ton of great people. Any large faith like that will have a spectrum of humanity.

I think we can safely say that there are great people in Hinduism too, along with those who are Hindu in name only and lack the spirit of Hinduism's best teachings.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i System involves both the transformation of the individual and society. Because it's voluntary it will take centuries. Until people can see the Baha'i Order visibly enough to compare it with other systems it has, then humanity will basically ignore it, but even now it is becoming noticed as it has succeeded in bringing together previously hostile and antagonistic races, religions and nationalities which governments are grappling with today and are not having as much success with things like multiculturalism because of assimilation, whereas the Baha'is do not have problems of assimilation as we consider ourselves 'one people'. We identify ourselves not with our race or religious background but with our common humanity.

So the Baha'i Community is a 'sample' of a world without nationalism or religious antagonism and hostilities. For instance Baha'is from Hindu and Muslim backgrounds or Jewish and Muslim or Christian and Buddhist, all have no discrepancies or misunderstandings whereas outside there is conflict and wars, disputes and prejudices.

I have seen no evidence of that, other than Bahais patting themselves on the back. I much prefer multiculturalism and strong independent faiths that respect each other as wonderful people, a solidarity in diversity, not some melting pot of uniformity. Different food, different music, and much much more. the world is such a wondrous place.

 

[Vinayaka]

No ones changing the definition of peace. Baha'u'llah came to bring the Most Great Peace but said the Lesser Peace would come first. The Kingdom of God, this Divine System, was Promised to humanity thousands of years ago.

Apparently they omitted the heathens and Hindus, because we've never heard of it. But hey, we're used to being second class citizens, lol.

 

[Vaderecta]

He was a friend of Tolstoy's, but this is the first time I've heard the wife story, not that I know much at all. Guy has a ton of statues all over the place in India.

Himmler was the Nazi that used the Bhagavad Gita in part to justify his version of a 'just' war.

So you care enough that you chastise others that misspell his name according to you but not enough to know who he was? While he was an interesting person he did lots of things that were probably more a product of the times and how he grew up. His views on rape were asinine, he slept with young girls while naked to prove he could conquer his manhood and remain celibate. (Although it is thought he slept with other women that were not his wife while denying her any intimacy except the backside of his hand)

However the important thing is one must care enough to spell his non-english name in english properly. No one debates that Gandhi did some great things be he was no saint. In america we have an official holiday and statues for Christopher Columbus and that guy was a nightmare of a human. There are lots of places to research Gandhi but I would start with Penn and Teller and follow up on what they quote and move on to Chistopher Hitchens (RIP) and then others.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think we can safely say that there are great people in Hinduism too, along with those who are Hindu in name only and lack the spirit of Hinduism's best teachings.

Sure. All faiths are like that. I've met Bahai (only on line, never met a Bahai in real life, although a childhood friend of mine was interested in it at one time. but I lost touch with him.) who lean towards fundamentalism.

 

[Vinayaka]

So you care enough that you chastise others that misspell his name according to you but not enough to know who he was? While he was an interesting person he did lots of things that were probably more a product of the times and how he grew up. His views on rape were asinine, he slept with young girls while naked to prove he could conquer his manhood and remain celibate. (Although it is thought he slept with other women that were not his wife while denying her any intimacy expect the backside of his hand)

However the important thing is one must care enough to spell his non-english name in english properly. No one debates that Gandhi did some great things be he was no saint. In america we have an official holiday and statues for Christopher Columbus and that guy was a nightmare of a human. There are lots of places to research Gandhi but I would start with Penn and Teller and follow up on what they quote and move on to Chistopher Hitchens (RIP) and then others.

I've never been a hero worshiper of Gandhi either. I've looked at all sides with some objectivity. In India there were many detractors. He got killed by one, in fact. Yes I saw the movie, and have read some short biographies. Still, I'm no expert. That's what I meant.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Apparently they omitted the heathens and Hindus, because we've never heard of it. But hey, we're used to being second class citizens, lol.

That's right.lol

It was Queen Victoria who received the letter on your behalf.

Emperor of India - Wikipedia

Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 33-35

 

[Vinayaka]

That's right.lol

It was Queen Victoria who received the letter on your behalf.

Gotta love Queen Vic, lol.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Sure. All faiths are like that. I've met Bahai (only on line, never met a Bahai in real life, although a childhood friend of mine was interested in it at one time. but I lost touch with him.) who lean towards fundamentalism.

I think we can all go through different stages of our faith, often more to do with personal maturity than our actual faith.

 

[siti]

Moses brought the Ten Commandments which had a great effect on the entire world even to the present day for the better. Thou shalt nit kill or steal, love thy neighbour as thy self - all good stuff. Those were the laws He came to bring for humanity at the time.

This would be the same "thou shalt not kill" Moses who commanded the genocide of Midian and capital punishment for violation of a religious law?

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against Jehovah in the matter of Peor, and so the plague was among the congregation of Jehovah. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women-children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:15-17

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. And Jehovah said unto Moses, The man shall surely be put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him to death with stones; as Jehovah commanded Moses.
Numbers 15:32-36
​

Many see the battle in the Bhagavad-Gita as the battle within the self. Ghandi certainly did. He didn't believe it was historical but that it was the concept of physical war used as an example.

I felt that it was not a historical work, but that, under the guise of physical warfare, it described the duel that perpetually went on in the hearts mankind, and that physical warfare was brought in merely to make the description of the internal duel more alluring.
The persons therein described may be historical, but the author of the Mahabharata has used them merely to drive home his religious theme.

(The Bhagavad-Gita according to Ghandi)

If (he said, repeating himself ad nauseum) the stories of Krishna are not historical, how could he be a divine Manifestation?

Then Muhammad. The Quran does not teach violence, terrorism or murder. It only teaches self defence if attacked - sura 2:190.

This would be the same Muhammad peace-loving Muhammad who wrote:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. Sura 9:29

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment. Sura 5:33

Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward. Sura 4:95​

 

[loverofhumanity]

But look at the progress too. Abolition of slavery, women's rights, the end of some nasty dictators. It goes both ways.

In His Most Holy Book, rcealed in the 1800's, Baha'u'llah abolished slavery and made it a part of the Holy Texts.

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. "

As far as I know, it is the only religious texts that abolish slavery.

Have you heard of Tahirih? Germaine Greer wasn't the first one to fight for the emancipation of women.

"You can kill me as soon as you like but you cannot stop the emancipation of women" - Tahirih 1852

http://www.tahirih.org/about-us/who-was-tahirih/

Baha'u'llah said power had been seized from both 'kings and ecclesiastics" which is why we saw the decline of kingdoms while He was alive and now witness the decline of the clergy in major religions. Priesthood has had its day and now we can look with our own eyes. But we still need God's guidance. News about priests and Mullas worldwide has only reinforced that they are in decline.