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How are these Great Beings explained?

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Apparently over a billion people disagree. Many more if you count all the non-Muslims who would disagree too. This reminds me so much of all the Christian churches who claim their particular branch is the only true one.
It doesn't have to be that way.

All Prophecy about the end of the Age, predict just that exact picture, of a dying age of spirituality, of worship that has become focused on self and feeding self over what God wants for us.

It also has bèen recorded, many are called, but few are chosen.

Many arguements given here, just further support the Message of Baha'u'llah and our need for Unity.

All our selves had muddied the mirror and it is quite dark here now.

Regards Tony
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So in 1800's why there was special schools for Islamic Scholarship?

The sons of privileged rich, powerful, influential fathers didn't need schools.
They would not doubt have had personal tutors.

It's no good to ignore the truth, that every Muslim parent hoped for their children to be in total recall of the Koran because it meant certain salvation for them!

You didn't know that, obviously.
And so to suggest that Bahauallah's father didn't bother to educate him to best standard possible just cannot be true!

Embrace the truth........ :shrug:
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Truth is what we want to make of it. The Source of Truth is One. All points to that source.

Man makes of it what His heart, what he wishes to. If you want Oneness, you will find it.

Stay well stay happy regards Tony

The Western World wants Oneness more than bahai does. Just look at the Equality Legislation that is pouring out from our governments. Equality that you would wish to see discarded.

Mindless Mantras and Buzzphrases like the above are meaningless when they are, in fact, Double-Think.

Be well. Stay Happy. Find Truth, Regards, OldBadger.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
The sons of privileged rich, powerful, influential fathers didn't need schools.
They would not doubt have had personal tutors.
What subjects they studied, and at what age?
Medicine? Astronomy? Physics? Chemistry? Religion? Art?...?

What was the level of teachings; basic, advanced or scholarship?
Please provide the references where you get the answer to these.
It's no good to ignore the truth, that every Muslim parent hoped for their children to be in total recall of the Koran because it meant certain salvation for them!
How do we know this?

You didn't know that, obviously.

And so to suggest that Bahauallah's father didn't bother to educate him to best standard possible just cannot be true!

Embrace the truth........ :shrug:
What subjects and at what level His father wanted for Him to learn? How many years and at what level? Please provide the reference which gives an accurate information to answer these questions.:shrug:
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Many arguements given here, just further support the Message of Baha'u'llah and our need for Unity.

Arguments are just arguments, Tony. They can be interpreted to support or not. We're all familiar with the Baha'i beliefs now, they're really no loner arguments. Do you really believe that the more you repeat them, the more convincing they will become? I would venture to suggest the opposite would be true.

The world doesn't need unity, it needs mutual respect.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
All Prophecy about the end of the Age, predict just that exact picture, of a dying age of spirituality, of worship that has become focused on self and feeding self over what God wants for us.

So you know what od wants for us, but non-Baha'i don't? That's not helping with harmony amongst people. 'Let's have unity, but lets do it my way' actually works against harmony.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
What subjects and at what level His father wanted for Him to learn? How many years and at what level? Please provide the reference which gives an accurate information to answer these questions.:shrug:

As a neutral observer, I see no evidence other than hearsay from either side. One side seems more logical to me though.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Self is fed if it is looking for triumph, as Truth always sufferes with this as motivation.
And so be detached in your investigations.

Truth has not found Justice on this OP as True Justice has not been considered.
Oh yes it has!

"O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."
Actions speak louder than words.

Baha'u'llah can only be seen through His Life and His Writings and not the myriad of hate sites and sites that contain bougus and misleading information. That is not Justice, it is a, 'I Love Winning' Procecutors perfect case, to have so many false, hand on heart, so called witnesses.
But we have been reading you and yours!

"O SON OF SPIRIT! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting."
And in the future, when people turn down your claims, you can chant these mantras at them.

That heart does not try to dig up dirt to run with popular thought. I say this in my Love for what we are, not what we can make ourselves to be.
You don't get it. When people discover truths that others don't like too much, they often use the 'digging up dirt' chant in efforts to put down truth.

Maturity has shown that none of this will stop a God given Faith from growing, ................
Which is why Bahai might have been wobbling these last decades?

If you want to prove Baha'u'llah Wrong, you should be able to do so by His own person, life and the Word He gave. What has He said will contradict His life, if He was not Trustworthy or Trueful.

Regards Tony
But you don't! You quote any number of folks in disregard of Bahauallah. And you change what he wrote, and you change what he did. I know, because I've read your posts.
You've changed his opinions about Jesus, about Christianity, about Marriage, about Houses of Justice, and I could find more.....

And suggestions that Bahauallah's Father was disinterested in his son's education, a Muslim parent, well that's just hogwash.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
What subjects they studied, and at what age?
Medicine? Astronomy? Physics? Chemistry? Religion? Art?...?
What was the level of teachings; basic, advanced or scholarship?
Please provide the references where you get the answer to these.

How do we know this?

What subjects and at what level His father wanted for Him to learn? How many years and at what level? Please provide the reference which gives an accurate information to answer these questions.:shrug:

I have been waiting for you......................
For a Muslim, The words of the Koran (and for some the Hadiths) are a complete education.

The standard that is hoped for is Total Recall (Hafiz).
No Muslim Parents deny their children a thorough education for life.......... The Qu'run

I have many sources, this is just one...............
Why make your child a Hafiz?
Below are some motivational points to encourage us to help our children to treasure the Qur'an in their hearts:

1.Memorizing the Holy Qur’an creates strength in the child’s intellectual skills.
2.The child and it’s parents, moreover the whole lineage is graced by honour and diginity.
3.Eternal salvation from poverty and hunger gained through the removing the shortness of sustenance. (content of a Hadith)
4.Parents will be given a crown on the Day of Judgement, whichs light will be more than that of the sun.
5.Through the blessings of memorizing the Qur’an one is protected from going astray and wrong beliefs.
6.The whole life will become ‘Ibaadah when one recites in every situation some or other verses, because one has memorized the Holy Qur’an.
7.Through the blessings of the Holy Qur’an one is to a large extent protected from a life of game and play [Lahw wa La'ab].
8.By the intercession of a Hafiz 10 persons from his family are granted salvation. (provided that they are Muslims)
9.Allah Ta’ala appoints angels for the protection of a Hafiz-e-Qur’an.
10.A Hafiz will be granted the highest place of Jannah which he likes for himself.

What are the benefits that a Hafiz gets in this life and the next.

Allaah has given special privileges to the one who memorizes the Qur’aan in a number of ways in this world and in the Hereafter -

1 – He takes precedence over others in leading the prayer.
It was narrated that Abu Mas’ood al-Ansaari said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The people should be led in prayer by the one among them who has the most knowledge of the Book of Allaah; if they are equal in knowledge of the Qur’aan, then by the one who has most knowledge of the Sunnah; if they are equal in knowledge of the Sunnah, then by the one who migrated (made hijrah) first; if they are equal in terms of hijrah, then by the one who became Muslim first. No man should lead another in prayer in his domain of authority, or sit in his place in his house, except with his permission."
(Narrated by Muslim, 673)
It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar said: "When the first muhaajiroon (emigrants) came to Quba’, before the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came (to Madeenah), Saalim the freed slave of Abu Hudhayfah used to lead them in prayer, and he was the one who knew the most Qur’aan."
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 660)

2 – He is placed in front of others in a common grave, closer to the qiblah, if it is essential to bury him with others.
It was narrated that Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with them both) said: "The Prophet would wrap two of the men slain at Uhud in a single cloth, then he would ask, ‘Which of them knew more Qur’aan?’ If one of them was pointed out to him, he would put that one in the lahd (niche in the side of the grave) first. And he said, ‘I will be a witness over these people on the Day of Resurrection.’ He commanded that they should be buried with their blood, without being washed, and that no funeral prayer should be offered for them."
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1278)

3 – He takes precedence in leadership if he is able to bear that
It was narrated from ‘Aamir ibn Waathilah that Naafi’ ibn ‘Abd al-Haarith met ‘Umar in ‘Usfaan, and ‘Umar had appointed him as governor of Makkah. ‘Umar said, "Who have you appointed in charge of the people of the valley?" He said, "Ibn Abza." ‘Umar asked, "Who is Ibn Abza?" He said, "One of our freed slaves." Umar said, "Have you appointed over them a freed slave?!" He said, "He is well-versed in the Book of Allaah and he has knowledge of the laws of inheritance." ‘Umar said: "Your Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Indeed, by this Book, Allaah would exalt some people and degrade others.’"
(Narrated by Muslim, 817)
With regards to the Hereafter:

4 – The status of the one who memorizes Qur’aan will be commensurate with the last aayah he memorized.
It was narrated from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "It will be said to the companion of the Qur’aan (i.e., the one who memorized and studied it): ‘Read, advance in status and recite as you used to do in the world, for your status will be commensurate with the last aayah that you recite.’"
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2914; he said this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. Al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, no. 2329, it is hasan saheeh. Also narrated by Abu Dawood, 1464).
What is meant by reciting here is memorizing.

5 – He will be with the angels, accompanying them.
It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The one who recites the Qur’aan and learns it by heart, will be with the noble righteous scribes (in Heaven) and the one who exerts himself to learn the Qur’aan by heart and recites it with great difficulty, will have a double reward."
(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4653; Muslim, 798)
6 – He will be given a crown of honour and a garment of honour to wear.
It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The Qur’aan will come on the Day of Resurrection and will say, ‘O Lord, adorn him.’ So he will be given a crown of honour to wear. Then it will say, ‘O Lord, give him more.’ So he will be given a garment of honour.’ Then it will say, ‘O Lord, be pleased with him.’ So Allaah will be pleased with him. Then it will be said to him, ‘Recite and advance in status, and for each verse you will gain one more hasanah (reward for good deed)."
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2915. He said, this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. Al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2328, this is hasan).
7 – The Qur’aan will intercede for him with his Lord.
It was narrated that Abu Umaamah al-Baahili said: "I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘Recite the Qur’aan, for it will come on the Day of Resurrection to intercede for its companions. Recite the two bright ones, al-Baqarah and Soorat Aal ‘Imraan, for they will come on the Day of Resurrection like two clouds or two shades or two flocks of birds in ranks, pleading for those who recite them. Recite Soorat al-Baqarah for to take recourse to it is a blessing and to give it up is a cause of grief, and the magicians cannot confront it."
(Narrated by Muslim, 804, and by al-Bukhaari ).
Secondly:
With regard to his relatives and descendents, there is evidence concerning his parents that they will be clothed with garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world, and that will only be because they took care of and taught their child. Even if they themselves were ignorant, Allaah will honour them because of their child. But the one who prevented his child from learning the Qur’aan, he will be one of those who will be deprived.
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The Qur’aan will come on the Day of Resurrection like a pale man saying to its companion, "Do you recognize me? I am the one who made you stay up at night and made you thirsty during the day…" Then he will be given dominion in his right hand and eternity in his left, and a crown of dignity will be placed upon his head, and his parents will be clothed with garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "O Lord, how did we earn this." It will be said to them, "Because you taught your child the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, 6/51).
It was narrated that Buraydah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever reads the Qur’aan, learns it and acts in accordance with it, on the Day of Resurrection his parents will be given a crown to wear whose light will be like the light of the sun, and his parents will be given garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "Why have we been given this to wear?" It will be said, "Because your child learned the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/756)
2012 Islam Pretoria.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Most of the anti-Baha'i sites just quote from Baha'i sources, and then point out the contradiction. The discrimination against women sitting on the UHJ is probably the most common. There is no lie or deception here at all. The 'extreme anti Baha'i nutjobs' just state the facts. Women can't sit on the UHJ. It's a fact.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
As a neutral observer, I see no evidence other than hearsay from either side. One side seems more logical to me though.
Indeed...............
It is time to show evidence of just how much importance Muslim parents placed upon education back-in-the-day and now. All education was centred upon the Koran which taught everything from law to living standards to (some) other religions.

After reading my post above this one, plus contents here, it can be shown to what extent Muslim parents wish their children to go to to succeed in a 'total-recall' education.

Bahauallah's father was not different to any other, apart from being so rich and able top provide such education.

The situation is now being changed, but this might interest you because you were a Cert. Ed. Teacher

-----------------------------


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053034/What-going-Britains-mosque-schools-Beatings-humiliation-lessons-hating-Britain.html

What IS going on in Britain's mosque schools?
By PAUL BRACCHI
UPDATED: 01:36, 25 October 2011

The punishment is almost medieval in its cruelty. Victims are forced to crouch down and hold their ears with their arms threaded under their legs. Beatings are often administered at the same time.
This brutal practice has its own name: the Hen, so called because those forced into the excruciatingly painful squatting position are said to resemble a chicken.
It is the kind of shockingly degrading treatment you might expect to feature in an expose of torture techniques, like say, the use of waterboarding (simulated drowning) on terrorism suspects. You’d be wrong, though.
Lessons in violence: Harrowing tales from some of Britain's 3,500 madrassas were exposed in February's Dispatches documentary
In fact, the Hen is used to discipline children, many under the age of ten, at British madrassas, the after-school Islamic religious classes invariably attached to mosques.
We have been told of one little girl who was forced to stay crouched and contorted in front of her class for an hour.
‘It’s a particularly unpleasant and painful punishment,’ said Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, a founder of the Muslim Institute think-tank, and one of the few Muslim voices in the country to speak out about the abuse of youngsters at madrassas.
The harrowing stories now emerging from such establishments are all too familiar to detectives in Lancashire, where there are 15 madrassas in Accrington alone. They have received at least 37 separate allegations against local Islamic teachers or hafizes, ‘holy men’ who have memorised the Koran by heart.
Among them is a girl who says she was hit and kicked in the leg and face, causing bruising. The victim’s age? Just six.
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The Qur’aan will come on the Day of Resurrection like a pale man saying to its companion, "Do you recognize me? I am the one who made you stay up at night and made you thirsty during the day…" Then he will be given dominion in his right hand and eternity in his left, and a crown of dignity will be placed upon his head, and his parents will be clothed with garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "O Lord, how did we earn this." It will be said to them, "Because you taught your child the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, 6/51).
It was narrated that Buraydah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever reads the Qur’aan, learns it and acts in accordance with it, on the Day of Resurrection his parents will be given a crown to wear whose light will be like the light of the sun, and his parents will be given garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "Why have we been given this to wear?" It will be said, "Because your child learned the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/756)

The Prophet(pbuh) said; "Whoever has three (or two or one) girls or sisters and treats them well and does not prefer male children over them and educates them in the best manner, Allah will make them a shield against hell and will put them in heaven"
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Most of the anti-Baha'i sites just quote from Baha'i sources, and then point out the contradiction. The discrimination against women sitting on the UHJ is probably the most common. There is no lie or deception here at all. The 'extreme anti Baha'i nutjobs' just state the facts. Women can't sit on the UHJ. It's a fact.

In a Bahai World, I suspect that any publication of criticism against Bahai would attract the religious police, because, of course, Bahai would be doing God's work in crushing such wicked thoughts.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Indeed...............
It is time to show evidence of just how much importance Muslim parents placed upon education back-in-the-day and now. All education was centred upon the Koran which taught everything from law to living standards to (some) other religions.

After reading my post above this one, plus contents here, it can be shown to what extent Muslim parents wish their children to go to to succeed in a 'total-recall' education.

Bahauallah's father was not different to any other, apart from being so rich and able top provide such education.

The situation is now being changed, but this might interest you because you were a Cert. Ed. Teacher

-----------------------------


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053034/What-going-Britains-mosque-schools-Beatings-humiliation-lessons-hating-Britain.html

What IS going on in Britain's mosque schools?
By PAUL BRACCHI
UPDATED: 01:36, 25 October 2011

The punishment is almost medieval in its cruelty. Victims are forced to crouch down and hold their ears with their arms threaded under their legs. Beatings are often administered at the same time.
This brutal practice has its own name: the Hen, so called because those forced into the excruciatingly painful squatting position are said to resemble a chicken.
It is the kind of shockingly degrading treatment you might expect to feature in an expose of torture techniques, like say, the use of waterboarding (simulated drowning) on terrorism suspects. You’d be wrong, though.
Lessons in violence: Harrowing tales from some of Britain's 3,500 madrassas were exposed in February's Dispatches documentary
In fact, the Hen is used to discipline children, many under the age of ten, at British madrassas, the after-school Islamic religious classes invariably attached to mosques.
We have been told of one little girl who was forced to stay crouched and contorted in front of her class for an hour.
‘It’s a particularly unpleasant and painful punishment,’ said Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, a founder of the Muslim Institute think-tank, and one of the few Muslim voices in the country to speak out about the abuse of youngsters at madrassas.
The harrowing stories now emerging from such establishments are all too familiar to detectives in Lancashire, where there are 15 madrassas in Accrington alone. They have received at least 37 separate allegations against local Islamic teachers or hafizes, ‘holy men’ who have memorised the Koran by heart.
Among them is a girl who says she was hit and kicked in the leg and face, causing bruising. The victim’s age? Just six.
It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘The Qur’aan will come on the Day of Resurrection like a pale man saying to its companion, "Do you recognize me? I am the one who made you stay up at night and made you thirsty during the day…" Then he will be given dominion in his right hand and eternity in his left, and a crown of dignity will be placed upon his head, and his parents will be clothed with garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "O Lord, how did we earn this." It will be said to them, "Because you taught your child the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Awsat, 6/51).
It was narrated that Buraydah said: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Whoever reads the Qur’aan, learns it and acts in accordance with it, on the Day of Resurrection his parents will be given a crown to wear whose light will be like the light of the sun, and his parents will be given garments which far surpass everything to be found in this world. They will say, "Why have we been given this to wear?" It will be said, "Because your child learned the Qur’aan."’"
(Narrated by al-Haakim, 1/756)

The Prophet(pbuh) said; "Whoever has three (or two or one) girls or sisters and treats them well and does not prefer male children over them and educates them in the best manner, Allah will make them a shield against hell and will put them in heaven"


That's just sad.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In a Bahai World, I suspect that any publication of criticism against Bahai would attract the religious police, because, of course, Bahai would be doing God's work in crushing such wicked thoughts.
I'm glad the internet is a free place, for more reasons than this, obviously. Still, some governments are adamant and willfully ban certain websites. That's why many proselytising faiths are still somewhat successful in poor villages where there is no access to 'the other side'.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In a Bahai World, I suspect that any publication of criticism against Bahai would attract the religious police, because, of course, Bahai would be doing God's work in crushing such wicked thoughts.


Here's an informative site: Ted Schneitz

Of course it's a 'hate-filled inaccurate blog' full of deception and lies.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I have been waiting for you......................
For a Muslim, The words of the Koran (and for some the Hadiths) are a complete education.

It is the Education of Baha'u'llah we talk about. Not about what education he 'may' have received, as seen by a person in 2017.

Thus the search needs to be on finding exactly that, not a 'maybe', based on what may have happened to a few others.

One is also concluding Baha'u'llah needed an education, thus searching with preconceived ideas will not find the truth, as any search undertaken will be fed by preconceived ideas.

Regards Tony
 
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