How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

Well then....... come over to the 'Studd Hill Full Moon Frolickers'. Nothing we ever do is right, in fact most things we do are out-and-out naughty.
But it's........ fun.
How old are you?
Mrs Wainwright needs a moonlight dancing partner. If you're between 75 and 90 then it's your lucky day, mate. She's gorgeous!

Does she like younger men? I'm only 68.

 

[CG Didymus]

You were replying to @adrian009 post:


There was nothing wrong with Yeshua, who joined with Jochananan to confess and redeem poor people outside of the Temple's greed and corruption, and who carried on for a time after Jochanan's arrest.

The deceiver and possible pyscho was Paul. Many here believe that.

Baha'is make everything said about Yeshua questionable. But then say they believe the Bible and the NT is the Word of God? Especially when it comes to prophecy they can use. You know I was just thinking about how they make Adam a Baha'i manifestation, but everything about Adam in the Bible I'll bet they say is symbolic and never really happened. So, for me that makes it mythology. I don't get it. I think I'm going to make some waffles with some cherry-picked syrup. I'll catch you later.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Bab “made the acceptance” of the Bayan “dependent on the good pleasure” of the One Who would follow Him — Baha’u’llah, the founder of the Baha’i Faith.

The Báb's Bayan



That's correct, and that's why most Babis eventualy recognised Baha'u'llah. The Kitab-i-Aqdas is the most important sacred text for Baha'is, not the Bayan.

Is it the Word of God given to us by God's prophet/manifestation?

 

[CG Didymus]

Christianity



Christians

No, if you are correct... it is a false religion that believes in myth and fantasy.

 

[CG Didymus]

It's because they said it was. That's the only reason. Just like infallibility.

I'd look at it, but I can't take all the flowery verbosage. I read and read and wonder, "What was the point?"

 

[oldbadger]

There is not a significant difference of opinion about the estimated year of birth of Christ. Most agree He was born 4-6 BC. Date of birth of Jesus - Wikipedia
The Bahai view that 666 years after Birth of Christ is 661AD falls within the range that majority scholars had been able to estimate.

So the Census of 6AD was not a reason for Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem, 12 years later than the 'scholars' guess!

That's OK, but they are putting all their chips on Herod still being alive so that he could order the infanticide around Betlehem 10-12 years before they would even arrive!

As it happens the Sepphoris Seige may well have been the reason for Joseph's flight from the area, but in that case Mary would most probably have been a Temple Virgin in that Hellenised city, and raped by or lover to the Soldier Patronus at that time.

If this all sounds weird and new to you, read Celcius, and the history of Judas BarEzekiah...... And look at where Nazareth, the two Cana's and Sepphoris are.

The possibilities of J's birth date are very complex, and the 'experts' can't agree on much. So your miracle calculations are probably more myth than miracle.

 

[CG Didymus]

Please refer to wiki if you want to learn about how the historians and scholars date the birth of Jesus. It is quite long, and it is a good read to be done individually.

But as regards to the number of the beast (666) the bible give many hints. First, the bible teaches that beast have horns, heads and crowns. It also teaches in Daniel 8 that, a beast represents a kingdom, or several kingdoms, a horn symbolically represents a king or a kingdom of a beast that rules for many years. Thus, the number of the beast, would be the number of a man who is a king of this beast. Now, the scriptures gives many hints, which are compatible with the Ummayads:

1. The beast makes war with 2 witnesses - compatibility is seen when we notice in Quran Muhammad and Ali are called witness, and Ummayads were in war with Muhammad and Ali.
2. The beast has 7 heads, 10 horns - compatibility is seen when we notice Ummayads ruled over Seven dominions and their kings had 10 names.
3. The number of the beast is 666 - compatibility is when we see Muawwiah who was one of the kings of Ummayads, became Caliph in 661 AD (which would be 666 years after Christ). In this year, he killed Ali, one of the witnesses.

The above points, you have already seen. But there is another one, which it has not been discussed or noted before, and that is in Daniel 8:


When we read Daniel 8 from its beginning, we notice how compatible it is with history.

It starts from the time, the Kingdoms of Persia and Media were very strong, and then it describes how the Alexander the Great defeated Persian Kingdom, and later how there appeared 4 kingdoms after Alexander the Great.
Now, here comes the hint: Notice that according to history, the Emperor of Byzantine came to existence through appearance of the Kingdoms of Greeks, namely after the Alexander the Great, and the 4 kingdoms described in Daniel 8.
Now, according to history, which you must be familiar with to understand this, the Empire of Byzantine was replaced by Ummayads. This in chronological order is described in Daniel 8:

9 "Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land."

Notice how clearly, this prophecy is talking about Caliphate of Ummayads, who began to grow in the same region as Byzantine and then grew in power more and more. It even came to the Beautiful Land, which is the Holy Land of Israel. Now, this horn, which began to grow, appeared in 661AD, when Muawwiah established the Umayyad Caliphate. See how closely and clearly the history is compatible with the description of the Beast? Please try to make yourself more familiar with the history. It will help you see the compatibilities better. Then you will recognize when the meaning of the symbols understood correctly, there is a 100 % compatibility with history, and 0% mismatch.

I get a little less than 100%. Rev 11:3 The two witnesses prophecy for 1260 days. V 7 When they finish their testimony, the beast kills them, both of them. V9 Their bodies lie in the street for 3 1/2 days, then come to life. So if the two witnesses are Muhammad and Ali, they do their thing for the 1260 days/years... of course lunar years. If we start at 622 AD, that takes us to 1844. They are then killed by the beast and lie in the street for the 3 1/2 days... or another 1260 years.

But then we have the red dragon in the next chapter. So the beast is the Ummayad dynasty and I think one of you said the dragon was the Abbasid dynasty? Is that right? Then in chapter 13 a beast comes out of the sea and has authority to act for forty two months, or your 1260 years. This beast is the one with the fatal wound in one of the heads. But this beast is given power by the dragon? So if the beast is the Ummayads, then no, they didn't get their power from the Abbasids. Then in Rev 13:11 another beast. This one makes everyone worship the beast with the fatal wound. Which you say is the Ummayads and the wounded head is the Ummayad leader that went to Andalusia. But because the new beast makes everyone worship the first beast, the Ummayads, this beast cannot not be one of the Ummayads... right? So who is it? No matter who you say, if it's not the Ummayads, you're going to be wrong, because this is the beast that has the number 666. So, somehow, you have to make the last beast the Ummayads to fit in your 666 AD date.

So no, no, no... not a chance for 100%. You get a one time "right on" for 1260, but you reuse it so many times, you make it ridiculous. Multiple uses of 1260 days, plus 3 1/2 days and forty two months and do you use a time and times and half a time too? I think you do. All of them you make into the same 1260 lunar years from the Hegira to the Bab's declaration in 1844? So you have a few strong prophecies, but then you had to add the weakest and most contrived ones too? Sorry, but it blows your credibility. With the way the world is going right now, the Christian interpretation of Revelation is just as likely to be true. Anyway I'm going to go play my guitar now. I think I'll sing "It's the end of the world as we know it".

 

[CG Didymus]

To understand this, you would need to be quite familiar with the Prophecies of Mahdi described in the Recorded Traditions of Islam.
When we read these traditions, we see that apparently it was expected the Mahdi would come with a Sword to conquer the world. Now what was intended by the Sword was the Word of God which separates falsehood from truth. It is a sword that kills anyone who opposes it, albeit killing in a spiritual sense.
However, throughout centuries, many of the Muslims had taken these signs literally, thus, their expectation was that the Mahdi literally will kill many with His sword.
The Bab being the Mahdi, did them a favour, so they do not get disturbed. He apparently made Himself appear in the way people had expected; He wrote many commands to ask His followers that the unbelievers must all be killed in order to appear to them as what they expected. However, He also put certain 'conditions' on His commands, so, such commands could not be practised. Thus outwardly He appeared to them as the expected blood thirsty Mahdi who would kill all infidels while in reality, He made such Laws impossible to use by making them conditional upon certain other things.
But all these objections does not change the fact that, the Bab who was a 24 years old Persian Merchant, all the sudden began to write verses like Arabic Quran, which the scholars and the learned who had spent years studying Islam, were unable to do so. It does not change the fact that, the historical life of the Bab and Bahaullah perfectly matches, and are compatible with thousands of prophecies in the Recorded Traditions.

Thanks, no Baha'i has ever told me that story. But it raises a lot more questions... like "What is God doing?" I know, I know... He doeth as he pleaseth.

 

[oldbadger]

The Comparison between the Manifestation of God and humanity, is like, comparing Shepherd and the flock. He is not required to follow the same rules as the flock needs to.
The Laws that divine Manifestations revealed are for humanity to be followed, whereas He shall not be asked for His doings.

Now we are getting somewhere!
You must feel to be very much on the back foot to finally, at last, ditch all the silly excuses and arguments, and just tell us that:
Manifestations of God can do what they like!

Sounds more like the temptation that was put to Jesus.

 

[CG Didymus]

I am willing to accept if you can disprove Bahaullah's infallibility. So, what exactly makes you believe Babaullah was not infallible? I mean, I understand you do not believe in Manifestations or Avatars or Prophets. But disbelieving in them is not disproving if They are really the Manifestations of God, in the same way that, if people do not believe in God Shiva, or reincarnation, is not an evidence that disproves if Shiva or incarnation is true or not. So, once again, what makes you think Bahaullah is not infallible, or maybe better to ask what evidence you have that refutes His claim? Do you believe God shiva makes errors?

The infallibility includes Abdu'l Baha also?

 

[oldbadger]

Yes of course. There could be no other way. Since he is infallible, even if he would have done something else, it would be the 'best possible act'. There isn't ever even the smallest hint of doubt in the fundamentalist 'I'm right, you're wrong' mindset. Too bad, because that attitude destroys any hope of conciliatory practices.

It no longer matters.
I have finally been told by a Bahai that Bahauallah did not have to keep his own or any other laws, because he was a Manifestation of God.

Now why didn't they just tell me this a few hundred pages ago?

 

[CG Didymus]

So the Census of 6AD was not a reason for Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem, 12 years later than the 'scholars' guess!

That's OK, but they are putting all their chips on Herod still being alive so that he could order the infanticide around Betlehem 10-12 years before they would even arrive!

As it happens the Sepphoris Seige may well have been the reason for Joseph's flight from the area, but in that case Mary would most probably have been a Temple Virgin in that Hellenised city, and raped by or lover to the Soldier Patronus at that time.

If this all sounds weird and new to you, read Celcius, and the history of Judas BarEzekiah...... And look at where Nazareth, the two Cana's and Sepphoris are.

The possibilities of J's birth date are very complex, and the 'experts' can't agree on much. So your miracle calculations are probably more myth than miracle.

But why do the Baha'is even make the mark or number of the beast a date? Christians always told it was the numeric value of the letters in a person's name. Many Christians said it referred to Nero. Which, if true, changes everything. It would make the Baha'i interpretation of Revelation completely off.

 

[oldbadger]

Does she like younger men? I'm only 68.

No good.
She dismissed my advances because I'm 69, and she told my Missus who slapped me!

 

[CG Didymus]

It no longer matters.
I have finally been told by a Bahai that Bahauallah did not have to keep his own or any other laws, because he was a Manifestation of God.

Now why didn't they just tell me this a few hundred pages ago?

Whew, I was worried, because how would the Krishna people explain Krishna and the Gopi girls? But wait a minute... Baha'u'llah can break the laws, but he expects us to keep them? What was all that about by their fruits you will know them and let their deeds be their adorning kind of talk? Isn't doing things opposite of what a person preaches a bad thing?

 

[oldbadger]

Baha'is make everything said about Yeshua questionable. But then say they believe the Bible and the NT is the Word of God? Especially when it comes to prophecy they can use. You know I was just thinking about how they make Adam a Baha'i manifestation, but everything about Adam in the Bible I'll bet they say is symbolic and never really happened. So, for me that makes it mythology. I don't get it. I think I'm going to make some waffles with some cherry-picked syrup. I'll catch you later.

Oozing with Double-think and double-speak.

It occured to me today that the Bahai numerology and date prophesy, if true, amounts to miracle.

Myth or Miracle. Take your pick.

 

[CG Didymus]

No good.
She dismissed my advances because I'm 69, and she told my Missus who slapped me!

What? Can you send me some pictures anyway? Jesus told me that imaging it is like doing it. I don't know if I believe him, but it's probably close enough.

 

[CG Didymus]

Oozing with Double-think and double-speak.

It occured to me today that the Bahai numerology and date prophesy, if true, amounts to miracle.

Myth or Miracle. Take your pick.

I glanced at a link I think Tony posted about fulfilled prophecy by Baha'u'llah. One guy in his interpretations looked like he was including astrology. So does that mean we are in the dawning of the age of Aquarius?

 

[CG Didymus]

There is not a significant difference of opinion about the estimated year of birth of Christ. Most agree He was born 4-6 BC. Date of birth of Jesus - Wikipedia
The Bahai view that 666 years after Birth of Christ is 661AD falls within the range that majority scholars had been able to estimate.

Yes, but are they lunar years?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Comparison between the Manifestation of God and humanity, is like, comparing Shepherd and the flock. He is not required to follow the same rules as the flock needs to.
The Laws that divine Manifestations revealed are for humanity to be followed, whereas He shall not be asked for His doings.

Yes and cult leaders too. They are above and beyond mere mortals.

 

[CG Didymus]

Now we are getting somewhere!
You must feel to be very much on the back foot to finally, at last, ditch all the silly excuses and arguments, and just tell us that:
Manifestations of God can do what they like!

Sounds more like the temptation that was put to Jesus.

Forget it, I'm giving in to temptation. The Baha'is say if you see the most beautiful woman in the world, the spiritual man won't even turn to look at her. Who does that? Forget it. If Baha'u'llah can marry 'em, I'm looking.

 

[Vinayaka]

It no longer matters.
I have finally been told by a Bahai that Bahauallah did not have to keep his own or any other laws, because he was a Manifestation of God.

Now why didn't they just tell me this a few hundred pages ago?

Sounds like a few of the kings of England to me. And a few other despots through history.