How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Really? I thought you said you didn't believe in any Holy Books?

Which Books exactly?

All Hindus accept the authority of the Vedas. What I did say, for clarification, was that Hindus don't put the same emphasis on books that the Abrahamic religions do. For example, in this discussion I'm not giving quotes from the Gita, or from my Gurus' words, at nearly the same rate as you quote your founder, thus proving the point in practice.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not true. Women have been at the forefront of promoting our teachings in the wider community,

So here is a question for you. What is your take on why, on this forum, most of (if not all) the Bahai are men?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wait, what???

1. You said you didnt understand Hindu

2. You said you have a common foundation as a Hindu

3. You said you were Hindu another post earlier than that you said you have the mind of a Hindu

4. You disregard Hindu TLC as Just expressions and ignore these expressions ARE their beliefs and foundations (with an s)

You've proven time and again that you don't understand Hinduism. Ba

Many many times.

Of course I am a Baha'i and not a Hind

We keep saying you are not. Youre just not agreeing with our reasons.

Having the same spirit of humanity is not based on a persons religion: bahai included. Its a generalized statement that we all are one humanity.

That is it.

Religions (with an s) goes beyond his concept of unity. It defines it separate and unique in itself by various foundations. These are not spring off of one spirit.

Each "spirit" (in spirit religions) are defined by their TLC.

Buddhism does not have spirits.

The holy spirit is not a being.

Christ is an actual person not just a spirit.

You said you experienced Catholism because you were raised it. Like me, you left it. If you truely experienced it beyond its spirit but appreciate its dogma/doctrine/culture that defines spirit of christ you would stay christian. I dont believe christ father exists. So I only believed in christ spirit since everyone has a spirit. That is a big reason why I left.

You cant experience something if you disregard the core foundation of their teachings.

But you are not Hindu, believe me.

 

[CG Didymus]

...We need to mature to the point where we can see that there is truth in every religion and there is...

When we look at the reality of how a religion is practiced, we see many variations. Why is this? If the original God-given message, if there ever was such a thing, was the true way, then why mess with it? Are the true teachings of religions corrupted by the "traditions" of men?

Or, were somewhat true things always mixed in with traditions from a culture to come up with a religion that fit the times? So really, how much is from a divine source and how much is from people? Look at ancient religions that made their leader divine. Who really decreed that? God? Or people? Somehow, somewhere, some religions were just a man-made thing made up to help that culture maintain it's order. The rulers were divinely ordained and the masses were expected to obey. Did the real God plan this, or was it people that devised this?

Like the religions that had sacrifices to the different gods. Is that the truth from the One True God? Or, did people come up with that on their own? Was that one of the "temporary" laws of God that changed when humankind advanced and was ready to progress spiritually to the next level? I doubt it because the Abrahamic religions all call those polytheistic, idol-worshiping religions as false.

In fact, one of the prophets of the True God killed the prophets of one of those idol-worshiping religions. So where is the progression? There was a progression, but not because the older religions had "some" truth to them, but because they were wrong, totally wrong, and accused by the "True" religion of the "True" God as being evil.

But then, how great was the "real" religion of God? In an ancient civilization that had human sacrifices to their gods, Europeans brought Christianity. Some were Catholic. Some were Protestant. They killed, conquered, enslaved and outlawed the practice of the old religion. Was the new one the perfect Word of God? Did it bring the perfect Law of God? No, both the Catholics and Protestants had a religion based on their interpretation of the Bible. So the old culture of the conquered people was destroyed, and they were pretty much forced to accept the God of the Europeans. A progression? Sure. Much better than the old ways. Perfect? No.

So where is the "progression" from one dispensation to another that the Baha'i Faith talks about? All people and cultures fought to protect and spread "their" truth. The dominant culture spread its truth the best, and it did include killing. It's more like the "survival of the fittest". I don't know, but I'll bet you the Europeans tried to get rid of Hinduism in India and get them all "Christianized". So where is the "oneness" in religion? Too many of them thought and were taught that their religion was the best and only truth.

 

[CG Didymus]

So here is a question for you. What is your take on why, on this forum, most of (if not all) the Bahai are men?

Hmmm? A new message from God for all people in the whole world and the Baha'is have it. Where are they? Why aren't there people from all faiths and cultures proclaiming the "New" revelation? Where I live in Northern California the Baha'is are virtually invisible. Where are they? What are they doing? The world is falling apart. They have the message to save us all, and they aren't spreading the Word? They are way too easily ignored.

Even on this forum, how many people really care about them? God has spoken! Christ has returned! But hardly anyone is willing to engage them and challenge their claims. Is this how the "New Age" is supposed to come about? Where's the big battle of Armageddon?

Since they are supposed to be the return of Krishna or somebody from Hinduism also, what have you been told? What are you expecting to happen? Since the Baha'i Faith is so based in a type and style of an Abrahamic religion, I got a feeling, it ain't this.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The Baha'i movement contributed towards racial equality in your country and mine.

Not very much. It impressed a few prominent black leaders from what I can gather, but no real observable change came until the Civil Rights movements of the '60's, and I find nothing to indicate that Baha'i influenced Martin Luther King. Plenty of claims, but no evidence. In fact, it seems to be quite the other way around, with Baha'is being influenced by MLK.

Yet even still, racial equality has a long way to go here, and is constantly in flux.

She was one of the first 18 people to recognise the Bab.

Okay but I specified outside of the Baha'i faith.

Not true. Women have been at the forefront of promoting our teachings in the wider community,

Promotion is not leading. I can promote Heathenry until the day I die, but until I am setting social codes, ethics, or speaking in authority I am not a leader. I can be a treasurer, a scribe, or the admin of a social media group. That doesn't make me a leader.

An essential aspect of the Baha'i movement is a movement away from the styles of leadership that are part of the worlds problems

Like having a ruling body of authoritative figures?

To understand the Baha'i community is to appreciate the flexibility and autonomy that the individual holds.

So then are you able to influence and change the Baha'i chapter in New Zealand? Could you, for instance, have your sect follow a different set of influential people, or none at all? Or deviate from the writings of the Babs entirely?

It was the myth of the resurrection I mentioned.

Which indicates the "power of god," not any notions on the afterlife. Still applicable; people believed in and knew of many notions of afterlives before the resurrection myth of Jesus.

My point is that up until relatively recently men have largely dominated women by reason of their more forceful qualities physically and mentally.

Since the Middle Ages? Yes. It's hard to say before that, because those men wrote their history and destroyed much of everything else. I, however, feel that what indications survived - the aforementioned queens and heroes - indicates that history was not always ruled by men.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So here is a question for you. What is your take on why, on this forum, most of (if not all) the Bahai are men?

Come to think of it, I've actually never met a woman Baha'i.

 

[Vinayaka]

Come to think of it, I've actually never met a woman Baha'i.

lol neither have I, but then I haven't met a male Bahai either.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's an easy escape route. Say something, have someone say what you said is a contradiction, and then excuse your self by changing your mind and saying, "but I was only speaking metaphorically'. I'm not even convinced you understand what 'metaphorically' means in this context.

Personally, I don't think you can be Buddhist or Hindu, metaphorically or otherwise. It is merely the ego not wishing to let go, and not admitting you can't do stuff others clearly can.

For the record, this is what you said:

"I have a mind just like a Buddhist does so I am capable of experiencing the same thoughts and meditations."

Please explain to me how that is metaphoric.

I am simply stating that both our minds are capable of similar experiences and that one cannot say categorically that a Baha'i cannot experience what a Buddhist can.

I think that makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[loverofhumanity]

http://dl.bahai.org/bwns/assets/documentlibrary/1158_message-from-the-president-of-india.pdf

 

[Vinayaka]

I am simply stating that both our minds are capable of similar experiences and that one cannot say categorically that a Baha'i cannot experience what a Buddhist can.

I think that makes a whole lot of sense.

That is simply not true, as I've shown you. To a large extent, what is in the mind is determined by the experiences that we have in life. So you live your entire life behaving like a Buddhist, speaking a Buddhist language, eating what Buddhists eat, and then you are recognisably a Buddhist.

You can't just 'pop' magically into Buddhism and have those experiences. Its as illogical as saying you can suddenly, without hesitation, 'pop' into thinking in French or Malayalam. It just doesn't work that way. The entire culture of a religion is programmed into the individual in his/her subconscious mind (called unconscious sometimes) or the memory mind.

So yes, I can categorically say that a Bahai simply can't have a Buddhist experience in the same way that a person who's never ice skated before can play ice hockey. It takes years and years and years of training.

I've been practicing Hinduism for over 40 years now, and I still don't get stuff. Lots of stuff. But you think you can just wave that magic Bahai wand of yours, and get it?

 

[Vinayaka]

http://dl.bahai.org/bwns/assets/documentlibrary/1158_message-from-the-president-of-india.pdf

Politicians of all ilk routinely give out warm messages to all religions. The Canadian prime minister sends an annual Diwali greeting, was a guest at the grand opening of a Hindu temple, and all that. It has nothing to do with the greatness of Bahai, and everything to do with the politician trying to get votes. Politicians know what's best for them. That's what they do.

BAHA'I CENSUS: Baha'i Population in India - A Report

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is simply not true, as I've shown you. To a large extent, what is in the mind is determined by the experiences that we have in life. So you live your entire life behaving like a Buddhist, speaking a Buddhist language, eating what Buddhists eat, and then you are recognisably a Buddhist.

You can't just 'pop' magically into Buddhism and have those experiences. Its as illogical as saying you can suddenly, without hesitation, 'pop' into thinking in French or Malayalam. It just doesn't work that way. The entire culture of a religion is programmed into the individual in his/her subconscious mind (called unconscious sometimes) or the memory mind.

So yes, I can categorically say that a Bahai simply can't have a Buddhist experience in the same way that a person who's never ice skated before can play ice hockey. It takes years and years and years of training.

I've been practicing Hinduism for over 40 years now, and I still don't get stuff. Lots of stuff. But you think you can just wave that magic Bahai wand of yours, and get it?

I'm saying no one has a monopoly on truth and anyone can experience what anyone else can although it may not outwardly be recognised as under the same umbrella as far as terminology goes.

As I am human I am capable of experiencing anything you can experience and I may have had many 'Buddhist' or 'Hindu' spiritual experiences but just not outwardly.

You're confining your experiences to a small box and saying only certain groups can access it. I reject that. As far as spirituality is concerned there is no box. The box is the imaginary one people build up in their minds.

For instance there is not really such think as an American or a Frenchman. It is an imaginary boundary or label we use for identification but it doesn't really exist.

The world of the spirit is not contained in the world of illusion.

The illusion that one thinks all truth or certain truth is only contained in his or her particular tradition is basically a myth.

I can experience self realisation, truth, Certitude and so can every other person on this planet Bahá'í or not and they don't necessarily have to go through any particular agency to experience it.

There are so many myths or illusions we become attached to that are not reality. Race and nationality are others. We are human. In our spirits nationality and race don't exist. They are part of the illusions of this world. We are in reality one human race.

To see reality we must look past such illusions and myths. Just because Buddhists call it enlightenment and Baha'is call it Certitude doesn't mean it's not the same thing in essence.

On another note what is the best English translation of the Vedas that I can get as an eBook that you can recommend?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is simply not true, as I've shown you. To a large extent, what is in the mind is determined by the experiences that we have in life. So you live your entire life behaving like a Buddhist, speaking a Buddhist language, eating what Buddhists eat, and then you are recognisably a Buddhist.

You can't just 'pop' magically into Buddhism and have those experiences. Its as illogical as saying you can suddenly, without hesitation, 'pop' into thinking in French or Malayalam. It just doesn't work that way. The entire culture of a religion is programmed into the individual in his/her subconscious mind (called unconscious sometimes) or the memory mind.

So yes, I can categorically say that a Bahai simply can't have a Buddhist experience in the same way that a person who's never ice skated before can play ice hockey. It takes years and years and years of training.

I've been practicing Hinduism for over 40 years now, and I still don't get stuff. Lots of stuff. But you think you can just wave that magic Bahai wand of yours, and get it?

Ya showin your age

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm saying no one has a monopoly on truth and anyone can experience what anyone else can although it may not outwardly be recognised as under the same umbrella as far as terminology goes.

As I am human I am capable of experiencing anything you can experience and I may have had many 'Buddhist' or 'Hindu' spiritual experiences but just not outwardly.

You're confining your experiences to a small box and saying only certain groups can access it. I reject that. As far as spirituality is concerned there is no box. The box is the imaginary one people build up in their minds.

I gave a specific to Hinduism inner experience, and you could not answer my question on it. Inner experiences are still experiences, just as outer ones are. Experience ... to do, to have, etc. Perhaps you don't understand the term 'experience.

This is no different than saying a man can have a baby. But then I've heard some men say they can.

Yes I am definitely confining my experience to a small box. that is what gives real strength to religion, just as a magnifying glass concentrates light to a single spot to create a fire, or water moves faster when it gets narrower. That is where we people of any pure religion get our strength. A pure Catholic is a wonderful person. A Buddhist monk knows stuff nobody else knows. In layman terms its called getting speific, or focussing on a specialty.

Who would you like to operate on your heart, a heart surgeon or a general practioner, or worse, Uncle Joe the plumber?

 

[Vinayaka]

As I am human I am capable of experiencing anything you can experience and I may have had many 'Buddhist' or 'Hindu' spiritual experiences but just not outwardly.

I actually agree with this, but only when you apply reincarnation to the process. But since you don't believe in reincarnation, the idea is moot,

 

[Vinayaka]

Ya showin your age

Getting a lot older every day from this thread .... I'm 63, for the record, feeling like 90. Time to get a new body. What is your chronological age, for this lifetime? You're old and mature in my books.

 

[Vinayaka]

The illusion that one thinks all truth or certain truth is only contained in his or her particular tradition is basically a myth.

I certainly don't believe that, but sure seems like you do. Are you able to drop Bahai?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Getting a lot older every day from this thread .... I'm 63, for the record, feeling like 90. Time to get a new body. What is your chronological age, for this lifetime? You're old and mature in my books.

Thank you. I highly appreciate your comment.

Haha. Im 36. I thought I just turned 37 in march and freaked out being close to 40. Mother took me out and said I almost gave her a heart attack and found out I was telling people all last year I was one year older.

People see me and think Im in my early 20s. Cant win.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm saying no one has a monopoly on truth

You are missing the point. No one can have a monopoly on truth because

There are many truths. More than one.

Yours is X
Mine is Y
@Vinayaka is Z

Just because they are letters doesnt mean each letter is the same. You cant get the same word Yoyo by saying Zoyo. They are different. Not invalid. Different.