How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm saying no one has a monopoly on truth

Because there is more than one truth. No one is holding a monopoly on anyone else's truth but bahai. Everyone else knows there are different colors of the rainbow. You insist that the colors are expressions and there is just one "color" that connects them all. Reality doesnt work that way. You cant put people in a one-truth box.

Yes each person has a monopoly on truth. What is my truth if you feel I dont known my own expressions/truth?

Why would and how would my truth be a hindu truth? What do I share (since you share it too) with a hindu that I dont know about?

Let us look deeper into this. Forget about mystical experiences. Atheist have mystical experiences but they arent part of your religion.

Are you willing to know other people's truth by taking interest in their traditions, language, and culture?

You cannot be any other religion without these three things.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Politicians of all ilk routinely give out warm messages to all religions. The Canadian prime minister sends an annual Diwali greeting, was a guest at the grand opening of a Hindu temple, and all that. It has nothing to do with the greatness of Bahai, and everything to do with the politician trying to get votes. Politicians know what's best for them. That's what they do.

BAHA'I CENSUS: Baha'i Population in India - A Report

Most Hindus don't abandon their Hindu origins when they become Baha'is so they would definitely show up on consensus as Hindus although they would be on Bahá'í records as being Baha'is.

In India a person can be both a Baha'i and a Hindu whereas in western countries they have advanced further into their Baha'i identity and are just 'Baha'is ' as their traditional roots are not so strong.

I believe mistakes can be made but this was clearly mainly an attempt to attack and discredit the Baha'i Faith.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You are missing the point. No one can have a monopoly on truth because

There are many truths. More than one.

Yours is X
Mine is Y
@Vinayaka is Z

Just because they are letters doesnt mean each letter is the same. You cant get the same word Yoyo by saying Zoyo. They are different. Not invalid. Different.

We are speaking about spiritual truth here. The spiritual world is not the world of illusion and does not know of three barriers. There is no such thing as x and y in the spiritual world.

It's an illusion. We are both capable of having similar mystical experiences as we are both human. This claim to uniqueness and exclusivity is a myth that doesn't exist. It's imaginary.

You might get you light from a candle and myself from an oil lamp. Light is still light but the intensity may differ or you may wear green coloured glasses and me red. It's still all light we see.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Because there is more than one truth. No one is holding a monopoly on anyone else's truth but bahai. Everyone else knows there are different colors of the rainbow. You insist that the colors are expressions and there is just one "color" that connects them all. Reality doesnt work that way. You cant put people in a one-truth box.

Yes each person has a monopoly on truth. What is my truth if you feel I dont known my own expressions/truth?

Why would and how would my truth be a hindu truth? What do I share (since you share it too) with a hindu that I dont know about?

Let us look deeper into this. Forget about mystical experiences. Atheist have mystical experiences but they arent part of your religion.

Are you willing to know other people's truth by taking interest in their traditions, language, and culture?

You cannot be any other religion without these three things.

The fact you say 'nonody else's truth'? Who's truth? No one owns Teri the so we can't say it is someone 'els's truth' to steal or take away like the light of the sun which belongs to all humanity.

You don't have a secret chest where you own any special truth that I can't have because truth belongs to all. You are putting truth in a box labelling it 'mine' and saying Baha'is can't have it.

You don't own truth. We all own it.

I don't think you're understanding it. We are saying upyes there are the different coloured of a rainbow but then there's the rainbow as a whole. There is one rainbow with many colours. Each colour of the rainbow is not a rainbow in itself which is what you're saying.

There is diversity of language custom and tradition but spiritually we are one. We see both oneness and diversity.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

We are speaking about spiritual truth here. The spiritual world is not the world of illusion and does not know of three barriers. There is no such thing as x and y in the spiritual world.

It's an illusion. We are both capable of having similar mystical experiences as we are both human. This claim to uniqueness and exclusivity is a myth that doesn't exist. It's imaginary.

Careful; that sounds an awful lot like trying to stake a monopoly claim to Spiritual Truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You are missing the point. No one can have a monopoly on truth because

There are many truths. More than one.

Yours is X
Mine is Y
@Vinayaka is Z

Just because they are letters doesnt mean each letter is the same. You cant get the same word Yoyo by saying Zoyo. They are different. Not invalid. Different.

Yes but we all speak the alphabet and you don't own x and I don't own y. We each have access to all the letters.

Christians like to say they have Chrust and unless we believe and interpret exactly as they do then we can't have Christ. That's preposterous an assumption of monopoly.

We all breathe the same oxygen receive light from the same sun and spiritual truth from the same source but we outwardly have diverse ways of expressing, worshipping and believing which constitutes our diversity. You have a Temple and I have a House if Worship.

Our diversity does not lie in the spiritual world but in the bodily world and in outward forms such as speech, clothes, culture and tradition.

We have both diversity and things in common we share such as spirituality, we are more than just mere animals, we have a spiritual reality also. That us what we have in common and that we are all humans.

The diverse elements are outward not inward.

 

[Vinayaka]

Most Hindus don't abandon their Hindu origins when they become Baha'is so they would definitely show up on consensus as Hindus although they would be on Bahá'í records as being Baha'is.

In India a person can be both a Baha'i and a Hindu whereas in western countries they have advanced further into their Baha'i identity and are just 'Baha'is ' as their traditional roots are not so strong.

I believe mistakes can be made but this was clearly mainly an attempt to attack and discredit the Baha'i Faith.

Yes, there are always two sides to every story. All I was doing was pointing that out. Life is not all roses. Census takers may or may not say you can be two religions at once. I don't actually know how they do it in India. In religion in India it gets really complicated because people will lie about what they are just to get food, or to get a job. Its a matter of survival. The rickshaw and car for hire guys change their religion 5 times a day to agree with their fare. So they just ask what you are and then they say they are that too. It means for bigger tips. and hey, why not, if it means feeding hungry mouths.

But lots of religions use various methods to distort the number of adherents simply because it looks good.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is diversity of language custom and tradition but spiritually we are one. We see both oneness and diversity.

If you actually saw diversity you'd admit there is stuff you don't know about several other faiths.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Careful; that sounds an awful lot like trying to stake a monopoly claim to Spiritual Truth.

No one owns truth not any culture or religion. Stating that we have equal access to truth is debunking that anyone holds a monopoly on truth.

 

[Vinayaka]

The diverse elements are outward not inward.

Again then, how many petals does the ajna chakra have? For that matter, what is a chakra?

 

[Vinayaka]

No one owns truth not any culture or religion. Stating that we have equal access to truth is debunking that anyone holds a monopoly on truth.

But truths are different. You do hold a monopoly on Bahai's version of truth, because it is uniquely Bahai and non Bahais don't want it, because we have our own.

I suppose you also own my car?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

No one owns truth not any culture or religion. Stating that we have equal access to truth is debunking that anyone holds a monopoly on truth.

Only it doesn't sound like you're stating that we have "equal access to the truth," it sounds like you're saying "All your myths and interpretations are wrong, we've got the real answer here."

 

[Vinayaka]

It's an illusion. We are both capable of having similar mystical experiences as we are both human. This claim to uniqueness and exclusivity is a myth that doesn't exist. It's imaginary.

.

Yes, we do realise that is your opinion, and a core Bahai belief. It's just not our beleif. Are you now insisting, "I'm right and you're wrong." You know what that sounds like?

 

[Vinayaka]

Only it doesn't sound like you're stating that we have "equal access to the truth," it sounds like you're saying "All your myths and interpretations are wrong, we've got the real answer here."

Yes, that's how I interpret it too. Fundamentalism at the core.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you actually saw diversity you'd admit there is stuff you don't know about several other faiths.

I actually know very little but what I do know I love. I love diversity. I married diversity. My entire family in Burma follow Buddhist culture although they are Baha'is because it is where they live. I'm an Australian.

We say sorry, thank you and please they don't . There are so many different customs and traditions some good some not.

But blending eastern and western cultures in my life has been a source of a deep meaningfulness. I'm becoming more Burmese and my wife more Australian.

I got married in a dress - well sarong. Diversity is beautiful.

In an interracial marriage your diversity is your main strength but it's what we have in common which unites us.

 

[Vinayaka]

In India a person can be both a Baha'i and a Hindu whereas in western countries they have advanced further into their Baha'i identity and are just 'Baha'is ' as their traditional roots are not so strong.

Not according to the census takers. If that were true, the Bahais would simply state 'all of the above' and the count would come out slightly higher than the population. So adherents claim only one religion.

2011 Census of India - Wikipedia

 

[Vinayaka]

Diversity is beautiful.

Yes it is. That's why we can have many truths, unique to each faith. It's because we have a diverse planet.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So here is a question for you. What is your take on why, on this forum, most of (if not all) the Bahai are men?

Interesting question. I suspect that discussion groups like these attract more men than women. The other consideration is sample size. Art, David, and I are hardly a representative sample.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, we do realise that is your opinion, and a core Bahai belief. It's just not our beleif. Are you now insisting, "I'm right and you're wrong." You know what that sounds like?

If only I could be right even once. I don't think I am right or explain right even once. I stuff up most of the time but I'm trying.

I truly admire your beliefs like non violence or ahimsa and may try to think and meditate more on it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Interesting question. I suspect that discussion groups like these attract more men than women. The other consideration is sample size. Art, David, and I are hardly a representative sample.

Thank you. There are more than 3 though if you check the Bahai DIR. I think in general there are more men than women on these forums. But I don't think they keep demographics either.