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How are these Great Beings explained?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
It's what the many many testimonies of ex-Baha'i I have read say. But as far as I know, active Bahai's are discouraged from reading those testimonies, so you have to take my word for it I guess.

There is no problem or reason that a Baha'i can not read the testimonies of those that leave the Baha'i faith, just for the record.:)

If you want me to comment on any testimonies you provide, I'm happy to oblige.

I'm not in cahoots with OB on that one. Persecution is persecution, and on the grand scale of numbers, the Baha'i get off easily, especially when compared to the Rohingya, the Yemenis, the Tamils in Sri Lanka, and many others. But we never seem to hear the Baha'i speaking up for those atrocities, it's only the persecution in Iran they seem to care about. I find that odd.

Pleased to hear that. There is no place in this world now or in the future for the suppression or persecution of religion, whether its Hindus, Muslims, Jews, or Christian. The Baha'i writings are very strong on freedom of religion and non-violence. All the instances you mention are deplorable acts and totally unacceptable.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

Thanks for that. So an 18 year old woman of Middle Eastern/Arab descent travels to the West to study at university. Her mother is Baha'i and her father (raised Muslim currently has no religion). Being in the West she is now exposed to different values and beliefs and is questioning her Baha'i upbringing and decides that she no longer considers herself a Baha'i. Baha'i are free to come and go. If she has decided that the Baha'i Faith is no longer for her that is her choice and her right. There will be no shunning (or shouldn't be) from family or friends should she decide to leave. I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually decided to join up again. I've come across quite a few Baha'is that have had time out, and even resigned and come back.

The whole business of youth groups is difficult because young people are particularly sensitive to being perceived as different by their peers. Young people can often feel sensitive to being pressured, real or otherwise. While teaching the Baha'i Faith is very much part of being a Baha'i it needs to be something we really want to do and feel comfortable with, definitely not forced or pressured by others.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I guess that after a while they all just got bored.
I certainly do feel bored, as my recent posts must have shown :p
I'm fed up to the back teeth with the subject matter and really do need a break.
I'll go and annoy @Revoltingest .......... at least that's fun.

I'll be back later........... please keep my place. :)
No, don't leave! I depend on you for the alternative Baha'i story.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
This is what you said: " It is the latter that is prevalent in testimonies why a person withdrew from a Faith. Sometimes those references to I are not Unhealthy, a lot of the time they are extreamly unhealthy."

What I read is that you're saying people who withdraw from a faith are self-centered, and extremely unhealthy people. Perhaps you did mean something different. I really don't know, and often I don't know what you mean.

I don't see it as a selfish act at all. A person has to do what a person has to do. At some point we all have to look out for our own mental and spiritual health, and God gave us free will to decide what is best. If your faith is depressing you, or making you broke, or other wise making it hard to survive, than its best to get out, for all concerned. I've seen people put their faith before their marriage and have divorces. Rather than look at themselves as being overly religious, they blame the spouse. So who is the selfish one in those cases?

My Guru advised, in that situation, 'Go with your husband. We're definitely not in the business of causing divorces."

The healthy aspect is up to them and why they used I. I do not judge the person I look at the comment they have made and weigh that against what Baha'u'llah has offered.

A lot of the use of the word I and in some of these cases, it showed a poor understanding of what Baha'u'llah had offered.

Hopefully what Adrian offered, will be able to discuss this.

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hello Carlita, great to hear from you :)

I guess the best way is to ask ourselves that question, is how many people extol our names and are inspired to give back to all humanity because of belief in what we said.

Also important is that with the Name we are Praising God, the giver of Names.

I see the need to give to the Great Beings at the least what they deserve' and that is respect of what their lives and Messages gave to the world.

Hope you are well and most importantly happy.

Regards Tony

There is a thing among anti-catholic christians who say dont call anyone father but god. If that be the case, Id extend that no one should be called any title of god but god himself. God gave titles to others such as Abraham from Abram and Jesus the anointed (right after he was concieved) not the other say around: thats idolism.

Cough. Anyway.

How are they great beings because of their name?

Carlita is female for Carl. Im my father's little 'ita. The name is not unique (neiher is Muhammad and Jesús). So, their "greatness" should surpass their name and proof of historical existence.

Are these people defined by their names and their historical existence?

If so, can you explain their existence today independent of their followers interpretations of them?

What exactly makes them great now?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks for that. So an 18 year old woman of Middle Eastern/Arab descent travels to the West to study at university. Her mother is Baha'i and her father (raised Muslim currently has no religion). Being in the West she is now exposed to different values and beliefs and is questioning her Baha'i upbringing and decides that she no longer considers herself a Baha'i. Baha'i are free to come and go. If she has decided that the Baha'i Faith is no longer for her that is her choice and her right. There will be no shunning (or shouldn't be) from family or friends should she decide to leave. I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually decided to join up again. I've come across quite a few Baha'is that have had time out, and even resigned and come back.

The whole business of youth groups is difficult because young people are particularly sensitive to being perceived as different by their peers. Young people can often feel sensitive to being pressured, real or otherwise. While teaching the Baha'i Faith is very much part of being a Baha'i it needs to be something we really want to do and feel comfortable with, definitely not forced or pressured by others.

I just think it's important to know you can go, and feeling too much family pressure shows selfishness rather than love for the individual. I'm glad you said 'or shouldn't be' to the shunning. I can't imagine shunning family members over that.

But this is fairly typical of those testimonies I've read. Certainly not just some whim, or because they're unhealthy. It's a serious well thought out decision, based on experiences. One can only feel for them. I wish her Mom could read it, anonymously. But there is also this ... doesn't happen to me' denial syndrome for a lot of us.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I didn't find the time to engage with Whitestone and thought Tony responded positively. Whitestone posted on another thread I was part of.

The Christian Bible: Can you prove or disprove dispensational interpretation of scriptures?
But how do you engage a Christian that you know is completely committed to Fundamentalist doctrines? You know it's going to cause problems. So can a Baha'i sacrifice some of their beliefs for the sake of unity? 'Cause without some understanding between the more conservative and dogmatic forms of religion, there will be no peace.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The healthy aspect is up to them and why they used I. I do not judge the person I look at the comment they have made and weigh that against what Baha'u'llah has offered.

A lot of the use of the word I and in some of these cases, it showed a poor understanding of what Baha'u'llah had offered.

Hopefully what Adrian offered, will be able to discuss this.

Personally, I would like to think I would never judge a religion decision like that as unhealthy. A person has to do what they have to do. Dogmatism, alcoholism, following blindly, sure. These were gut wrenching decisions by real people.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
No, don't leave! I depend on you for the alternative Baha'i story.

I would offer a thought about the concept when you say, "alternative Baha'i story".

I offer it by way of this is a good story;

"...There was once a lover who had sighed for long years in separation from his beloved, and wasted in the fire of remoteness. From the rule of love, his heart was empty of patience, and his body weary of his spirit; he reckoned life without her as a mockery, and time consumed him away. How many a day he found no rest in longing for her; how many a night the pain of her kept him from sleep; his body was worn to a sigh, his heart’s wound had turned him to a cry of sorrow. He had given a thousand lives for one taste of the cup of her presence, but it availed him not. The doctors knew no cure for him, and companions avoided his company; yea, physicians have no medicine for one sick of love, unless the favor of the beloved one deliver him.
At last, the tree of his longing yielded the fruit of despair, and the fire of his hope fell to ashes. Then one night he could live no more, and he went out of his house and made for the marketplace. On a sudden, a watchman followed after him. He broke into a run, with the watchman following; then other watchmen came together, and barred every passage to the weary one. And the wretched one cried from his heart, and ran here and there, and moaned to himself: “Surely this watchman is Izrá’íl, my angel of death, following so fast upon me; or he is a tyrant of men, seeking to harm me.” His feet carried him on, the one bleeding with the arrow of love, and his heart lamented. Then he came to a garden wall, and with untold pain he scaled it, for it proved very high; and forgetting his life, he threw himself down to the garden.
And there he beheld his beloved with a lamp in her hand, searching for a ring she had lost. When the heart-surrendered lover looked on his ravishing love, he drew a great breath and raised up his hands in prayer, crying: “O God! Give Thou glory to the watchman, and riches and long life. For the watchman was Gabriel, guiding this poor one; or he was Isráfíl, bringing life to this wretched one!”
Indeed, his words were true, for he had found many a secret justice in this seeming tyranny of the watchman, and seen how many a mercy lay hid behind the veil. Out of wrath, the guard had led him who was athirst in love’s desert to the sea of his loved one, and lit up the dark night of absence with the light of reunion. He had driven one who was afar, into the garden of nearness, had guided an ailing soul to the heart’s physician.
Now if the lover could have looked ahead, he would have blessed the watchman at the start, and prayed on his behalf, and he would have seen that tyranny as justice; but since the end was veiled to him, he moaned and made his plaint in the beginning. Yet those who journey in the garden land of knowledge, because they see the end in the beginning, see peace in war and friendliness in anger" Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys, Pages 11-17

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You do? As is, or only the Baha'i altered versions?

Is here an ‘as is’? Because interpretations widely differ even amongst people of the same religion. So for instance tell me what is Christianity? Or Islam? Or even Buddhism?

We accept all the Founders of each religion and their Holy Books just not the conflicting interpretations of their sects.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yes, we all love a good conspiracy theories.

Why not do the research yourself?


This is hard to believe. It was starting to get civil again. First a troll, now a conspiracy theorist? When will it end? If someone offers up an alternative, he's now a conspiracy theorist? Are CG, Carlita, and I all in the same boat named Conspiracy?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
A Baha'i Pioneer gives their life in servive to the community they embrace. We may spend years in a community where there is little or no Baha'i activity, but will always discuss with all that ask, the principals of the Baha'' Faith. I have been 10 years in such a place as we try to implement those principals.

From there it is all Gods Will.

I would assume it would not be much different from what you do.

Also I hold no grudges as the person that was reported, I understand, as you do not beleive in Great Beings, that an entirly applicable quote in reference to Great Beings was seen by you to be proselytizing.

Regards Tony
But besides "pioneering", Baha'is did turn to "mass teaching" techniques in the 70's. What happened? Did they give up on it, or are they still trying it?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Each of those having ripples of their own.

Regards Tony
Still don't get it, but go ahead, have your theories. My theory is that there is a consciousness of selfishness pervading all realms of the planet, and those unaware of (called anava in Sanskrit) it can be drawn into it without knowing. More prevalent in some areas than others, sure.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
But besides "pioneering", Baha'is did turn to "mass teaching" techniques in the 70's. What happened? Did they give up on it, or are they still trying it?
There is a new push just now too, a renewed call to 'action'. It must get so tiring. I'd hate to be a Baha'i just cause I'd get so darn tired, let alone the philosophy I can't make sense of.
 
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