How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

If you accept history at all and indeed any person at all existed in History, then these Names have the greatest proof.

Thus do we draw thought from this world or do we draw from God?

It is well known that history gets distorted. All you have to do is to compare any war history written by the opposing sides. Things like death statistics generally will favour the side doing the writing. The Bible has changed over time, as has some of the writings of Baha'u'llah. I can link you to some work on that subject, if you wish. That is if I can find it again.

In Hinduism, we draw directly from God. There is no intermediary like a 'manifestation' or a panel of 9 elected male judges.

 

[oldbadger]

But why did Whitestone leave? Like Ragin Pagin, Siti and so many others? Are people being brought together and feeling the acceptance or being challenged for what they believe and pushed away?

I guess that after a while they all just got bored.
I certainly do feel bored, as my recent posts must have shown
I'm fed up to the back teeth with the subject matter and really do need a break.
I'll go and annoy @Revoltingest .......... at least that's fun.

I'll be back later........... please keep my place.

 

[Vinayaka]

Proselytism - Wikipedia

Yes. please. let's look at that article. The first section is all about the Baha'i, but the first sentence under Hinduism is 'Hinduism lacks a proselytizing tradition'.

I agree that perhaps Baha'is are not as agressive as some Christian churches, but it's wholeheartedly thee in the traditions. Baha'u'llah, his son, and his grandson all spoke heavily about spreading the word. It's a strong tradition in the main two Abrahamic faiths, and described as duty, as it is in Baha'i.

'Pioneering' is just another word for sending out missionaries to do missionary activity. I don't think many are fooled by the change in vocabulary. Baha'is have been reported on this forum for it, and posts have been deleted I assume by our just moderators. I only reported something from this thread once, and since then the excessive quoting has been turned off somewhat, but of course not entirely.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But why did Whitestone leave? Like Ragin Pagin, Siti and so many others? Are people being brought together and feeling the acceptance or being challenged for what they believe and pushed away?

You would have to ask Whitestone.

Given His/Her post Whitestone would have the entire world proclaim Christ as their Lord and Saviour and utter no other Name. But that is about the Love they Cherish.

I can give you my experience to your question;

"Are people being brought together and feeling the acceptance or being challenged for what they believe and pushed away?"

God is our Challenge, it is God that has given us our life of free will choices to enable us to know and Love the source of us being.

A journey in Faith is a constant Challenge where there is ebb and flow, calm and storm, crisis and victory.

Rember the Bible passages where it is told that Faith will bring separation in the last days (end of ages) and it is this turmoil that gives growth to what is True. Christians apply those passages only to themselves, that their Christ belief will cause others to seperate them, but they do not consider that holding to a doctrine they may also be playing a major part in the seperation.

All the while this is happening it cements in the mind of man the futllility of using belief in seperation. Remember Baha'u'llah said it is best to be without Faith if it becomes the cause for discord and seperation.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

What I have found it is self that takes one away from God.
It does come back to the purity of heart, that is what is our motivation in life. We are all given the chance for the motivation to be less of self and more for all humanity.

I agree. Selfishness, wanting the world to think just like you do, certainly takes us all away from God.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hinduism as a religion is thousands of years old. You have had ample opportunity to get it right. So why has enlightened India never fully embraced homosexuality? Is it currently legal? How about gender equality in the history of Hinduism? Where are all those female priests? Why so long to address the glaring inequality with the caste system?

When you have a billion people, there will be problems, of course. You won't believe this, but much of the problems you speak of were assimilated over time because of Islam being a neighbour and stuff like gender inequality rubbing off.

We do have female priests, and caste based discrimination remains a problem in some areas. Caste itself isn't the problem, it's caste based discrimination. Gender itself is not a problem, it's gender based discrimination. But that stuff exists in all communities. The Christian graveyards in the south have two sections ... one is for the untouchables.

There is definitely religious discrimination, as the secular government has discriminated against the Hindu majority for years, mainly in collecting the donations to Hindu temples, but in other ways as well. Muslims can apply for a government grant to go to Mecca. Not sure if Baha'i's can or not to go to Haifa. Perhaps. Hindus have no grants available for pilgrimage.

 

[Dawnofhope]

But why did Whitestone leave? Like Ragin Pagin, Siti and so many others? Are people being brought together and feeling the acceptance or being challenged for what they believe and pushed away?

I didn't find the time to engage with Whitestone and thought Tony responded positively. Whitestone posted on another thread I was part of.

The Christian Bible: Can you prove or disprove dispensational interpretation of scriptures?

 

[Vinayaka]

One of the main reasons it doesn’t work with Baha’is is because we already accept the other religions.

You do? As is, or only the Baha'i altered versions?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes. please. let's look at that article. The first section is all about the Baha'i, but the first sentence under Hinduism is 'Hinduism lacks a proselytizing tradition'.

I agree that perhaps Baha'is are not as agressive as some Christian churches, but it's wholeheartedly thee in the traditions. Baha'u'llah, his son, and his grandson all spoke heavily about spreading the word. It's a strong tradition in the main two Abrahamic faiths, and described as duty, as it is in Baha'i.

'Pioneering' is just another word for sending out missionaries to do missionary activity. I don't think many are fooled by the change in vocabulary. Baha'is have been reported on this forum for it, and posts have been deleted I assume by our just moderators. I only reported something from this thread once, and since then the excessive quoting has been turned off somewhat, but of course not entirely.

A Baha'i Pioneer gives their life in servive to the community they embrace. We may spend years in a community where there is little or no Baha'i activity, but will always discuss with all that ask, the principals of the Baha'' Faith. I have been 10 years in such a place as we try to implement those principals.

From there it is all Gods Will.

I would assume it would not be much different from what you do.

Also I hold no grudges as the person that was reported, I understand, as you do not beleive in Great Beings, that an entirly applicable quote in reference to Great Beings was seen by you to be proselytizing.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

CG it is said the source of the Great Beings is our One God.

It is then up to us to unravel how that is so. There are a lot of veils.

Yes, this is Baha'i belief. We know already.

 

[Vinayaka]

A Baha'i Pioneer gives their life in servive to the community they embrace. We may spend years in a community where there is little or no Baha'i activity, but will always discuss with all that ask, the principals of the Baha'' Faith. I have been 10 years in such a place as we try to implement those principals.

From there it is all Gods Will.

I would assume it would not be much different from what you do.

Also I hold no grudges as the person that was reported, I understand, as you do not beleive in Great Beings, that an entirly applicable quote in reference to Great Beings was seen by you to be proselytizing.

And by the moderators, apparently. But I don't think we should go there. Pioneers are missionaries. Calling them pioneers does not make them non-missionaries.

It truly is a whole lot different from what I do. A whole lot. I could never ever be a missionary. It goes against my sense of humanity completely.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It truly is a whole lot different from what I do. A whole lot. I could never ever be a missionary. It goes against my sense of humanity completely.

Do you live in and give service to your community?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, this is Baha'i belief. We know already.

That is why the reply was to CG and not you

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes. please. let's look at that article. The first section is all about the Baha'i, but the first sentence under Hinduism is 'Hinduism lacks a proselytizing tradition'.

I agree that perhaps Baha'is are not as agressive as some Christian churches, but it's wholeheartedly thee in the traditions. Baha'u'llah, his son, and his grandson all spoke heavily about spreading the word. It's a strong tradition in the main two Abrahamic faiths, and described as duty, as it is in Baha'i.

'Pioneering' is just another word for sending out missionaries to do missionary activity. I don't think many are fooled by the change in vocabulary. Baha'is have been reported on this forum for it, and posts have been deleted I assume by our just moderators. I only reported something from this thread once, and since then the excessive quoting has been turned off somewhat, but of course not entirely.

Education and teaching are vital to humanities progress whether in the sciences or the arts. If you have something that is of benefit to humanity, that should be made freely available. There should be no barriers. I'm grateful for those that travelled to New Zealand to assist establish the Baha'i Faith in New Zealand. It was available and accessible when I needed it the most. Hinduism isn't for everyone, yet there are barriers for a Hindu to convert from Hinduism to an Abrahamic Faith. What gives?

Everyone here will agree that we should not be engaging with aggressive forms of proselytizing on the list I provided, yet that is what happens here from non-Baha'i to Baha'i. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you live in and give service to your community?

I landscape ... quietly. Basically I talk to nobody. Pioneers are on a mission. That is to spread Baha'i as far and wide as possible. Young folks are encouraged to go pioneering. It is very similar to the Mormon missionary program, and missionary programs of other Christian churches. Go to some far off land and spread the religion. Offer classes, talk it up with people, go door to door, make sure everyone hears about your faith. That's the intent. It's what the many many testimonies of ex-Baha'i I have read say. But as far as I know, active Bahai's are discouraged from reading those testimonies, so you have to take my word for it I guess.

In regular life, when I worked, people often didn't even find out I was a Hindu. That's how quiet Hindus are. We don't discuss religion because we consider at largely a private matter. Many people who come to the temple (those who don't know me) I volunteer at figure I'm a hired landscaper, and non-Hindu, because I'm white.

So, no, it is absolutely not the same. But somebody, not reading this, will inform me it is the same. I know that. I will disagree.

 

[Vinayaka]

That is why the reply was to CG and not you

Regards Tony

I think he knows too. He's been here awhile as well.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You linked him to some cornerstone thing and to a couple of others, one was something in Some Answered Questions. So right off the focus is not on unity and finding common ground, it is to try and change and challenge a persons beliefs. Which is fine. If you are a proselytizing religion that believes you are the only one that is right.

Now the quandary. Why are you against the challenge to a long held view. Is this not what all the Great Beings have done?

Is this not why all of them faced rejection and persecution by the people of their times?

Also all the challenges we offer, we have already faced or are yet to face, most importantly these Words are not from us, they are offered from God, for all of Us.

I guess as we are tagged as proselytizers, then the tag is passed to God, as with what we offer from God, there is no charge, there is no force of conversion, it is but another choice of view, a view that has given keys to meanings of all Scriptures.

Happy to leave it alone at any time, it is you that has encouraged us to offer more, but then the charge of proselytizing?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Education and teaching are vital to humanities progress whether in the sciences or the arts. If you have something that is of benefit to humanity, that should be made freely available. There should be no barriers. I'm grateful for those that travelled to New Zealand to assist establish the Baha'i Faith in New Zealand. It was available and accessible when I needed it the most. Hinduism isn't for everyone, yet there are barriers for a Hindu to convert from Hinduism to an Abrahamic Faith. What gives?

In India, there was a video taken by a Hindu of a Baha'i teaching the ethics classes you offer. (Rumi?) sp?
She had promised that there would be no mention of Baha'i, but when videoed, she was caught telling all the little vulnerable open children that they needed to remember that Baha'u'llah was the current 'manifestation' for mankind. Link:

I agree, that is you have something that is of benefit to humanity, you should share it. But in matters of faith and religion, said benefit is highly controversial and debatable. If one member of a couple, with children, converts, divorce is all too often the inevitable result. You tell me, just how does divorce benefit humanity?

There are no barriers for a Hindu to convert to any other religion, given it is on their own volition. It happens a lot. Way too much, for all the wrong reasons, like the promise of jobs, money, or love. The Abrahamic faiths, on the other hand, have happily helped spread the myth that you cannot convert to Hinduism. They know that if conversion is a one way process, they will win the numbers game. It's despicable, in my view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I landscape ... quietly. Basically I talk to nobody. Pioneers are on a mission. That is to spread Baha'i as far and wide as possible. Young folks are encouraged to go pioneering. It is very similar to the Mormon missionary program, and missionary programs of other Christian churches. Go to some far off land and spread the religion. Offer classes, talk it up with people, go door to door, make sure everyone hears about your faith. That's the intent. It's what the many many testimonies of ex-Baha'i I have read say. But as far as I know, active Bahai's are discouraged from reading those testimonies, so you have to take my word for it I guess.

In regular life, when I worked, people often didn't even find out I was a Hindu. That's how quiet Hindus are. We don't discuss religion because we consider at largely a private matter. Many people who come to the temple (those who don't know me) I volunteer at figure I'm a hired landscaper, and non-Hindu, because I'm white.

So, no, it is absolutely not the same. But somebody, not reading this, will inform me it is the same. I know that. I will disagree.

I have read quite a few of testimonies of people that have left the Baha'i faith and all other Faiths to boot. The common word used is I. Our greatest trap, as with God there is no I, it is us.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

One would have to prove they did not exist and not just make a blanket statement as such. A person would have to prove that there was not a Krishna that inspired Millions and continue to do so, that there was not a Zoroaster, a Abraham, a Moses, a Jesus Christ and Muhammad that did likewise. That they had nothing extra special that achieved this Unity of Thought.

Hm. How does their historical existence, if proven, make them great beings anymore than you and I? I mean, I wouldn't worship anyone today who is alive. Not many people do until they die. Then probably five hundred years minimum, they are upgraded to the point of worship. If they are in the B.C., even better chance. (Being sarcastic on purpose )

Jesus and Muhammad didn't ask their followers to worship them. Moses, most definitely not. Abraham would think it idolism if you worshiped anyone other than god.

So, is there more reason to revere these people besides their historical existence and what they did that they did not do the last five hundred years?