How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

Have no doubt CG that it is much bigger than that. There is no 'pretend' if you give your life to your belief. I state now that there is no person on this planet can make a Baha'i reject any Messenger from God. This Faith is not a plaything for the ignorant, this is real, from the heart, built on rock.

I think we have made it very clear that this belief is based entirely on what the Great Beings have said, not what man has made of those teachings. It is obvious this will cause deep debate, how do you think just one of these Faiths, Christianity, split into around 40,000 branches! We have learned Hinduism is very vast and many schools of thought.

This post has been from the time I arrived an offer to explore what the Great Beings have said, the problem being most of those that post do no believe in the concept of Great Beings, so why would they explore this when they see something that clashes with a current understanding? Would you like to do this, lets pick a subject such as Justice and see what writing we can find from the Great Beings on Justice.

If you think that it is pretend and to pursue a unity of thought is negative, it is better we sop right now, none of us will gain any benefit from any further discussion.

Now as for Wrong and Deluded statements. This is the domain of the Great Beings, this is their call, not ours, we can only post their advice that is given to each and all of us and not to any one particular person, race or religion.

We could also explore this, what do the Great Beings say upon this subject.

Hope you are well and happy, Regards Tony

The pretending is saying that all religions agree when they don't. Some things in common? Sure. But, God, truth and reality are all defined differently.

Great Beings? Adam? Noah? Abraham? Moses? How many others from Judaism? How many do Jews say we're "manifestations"?

The Bible? Do you believe it is historically accurate? I doubt it. Creation, the Flood, the Resurrection... Real or symbolic? Yet, you believe the people were real? But how can you when you don't believe the events about their lives that are described in the Bible did not really happen?

To try and unite the world in peace and harmony is great. But, then Baha'is say all religions are one? At the same time you're telling them that the religions they are following have been corrupted with false dogmas and beliefs. So where is the oneness? If they don't leave their false beliefs, how can Baha'is be one with them?

Can you be one with a Christian that believes in the false belief that Jesus rose physically from the dead? Can you be one with a Hindu that believes in reincarnation? Or, will you tell them they are wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's not bad.
If you think about how many billions of Galaxies there are, and how many billions of solar systems in each Galaxy and then guesstimate that if only one in a thousand solar systems has life, why, the results are rather massive.
So.,...... yeah....... a good start.

There's an ancient alien expert on RF, I think.

You are thinking way too small, all we can know is but one of 100,000,000 lamps and this is an ancient tradition not modern thought at all. Here is the quote.

"Consider the following well-known tradition and examine its meanings indicative of the vastness of the cosmos and its awesome limitless expanse: 'God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell -- all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.' The fact that philosophers and sages have posited limits and restrictions for such matters is to be explained by the limitations of people~s minds and perceptions and the blindness of the followers of allusions, whose natures and intellects have been rendered dull and inanimate by the interposition of many veils." (Abdul'baha Provisional Translation of the Tablet of the Universe)

Tablet of the Universe

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Proof goes both ways, always. In my view, nobody knows.

For proof of each of the Great Beings there are the scriptures past down and there are the followers still speaking and extolling their Names.

If you accept history at all and indeed any person at all existed in History, then these Names have the greatest proof.

Our thoughts come from somewhere, it depends on us, as to where the source of our thoughts originate from. Science would have it within the material brain, a material process, but even science is now discovering this has much more to it.

Thus do we draw thought from this world or do we draw from God?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Of the many ex-Baha'is I've talked to on-line, the most common reason certainly isn't that they were converted away from it. It's that they became disillusioned with Baha'i teachings, or discovered it no longer made sense to them. Most who got converted to Baha'i stopped practicing because they found out about the homosexuality, gender equality, or other problems, and realised they were deceived initially. Born Baha'is leave for the same reason ... they just realise that it's mostly been a lie, and want to spread their wings. So there are many reasons.

I think most people who leave any religions just do it on their own accord, and the most common destination is 'no religion'. It's also common in mixed faith marriages for one to switch in hopes of marital harmony.

What I have found it is self that takes one away from God. The Wisdom in the Word of the Great Beings is timeless, flawless.

The deception of this age blinding us from all that is true life was foretold. No one is exempt.

It does come back to the purity of heart, that is what is our motivation in life. We are all given the chance for the motivation to be less of self and more for all humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

The only people I have ever met that don't think Baha'is proselytize are the Baha'is themselves. I've never seen it as a pejorative word. My Mormon missionary neighbours used it as a description of what they had to do so many hours a day. Calling it 'sharing' is just deception. It's proselytizing and everyone knows it.

Besides all that, in a debate, one side doesn't get to decide on the definition of certain words. Definitions are open to debate, as part of the debate.

Ex-Baha'i Story: Too much proselytizing and fundraising

We've discussed this before.

Perhaps some Mormons describe their missionary work as proselytizing, but I doubt if most Christians would view themselves in that way and most would certainly avoid many of the behaviours associated with the more aggressive forms of proselytizing.

Proselytism - Wikipedia

Lets look at some aspects of what it means to proselytize:

Proselytism - Wikipedia

(1)making unjust or uncharitable references to other churches’ beliefs and practices and even ridiculing them;

(2) comparing two Christian communities by emphasizing the achievements and ideals of one, and the weaknesses and practical problems of the other;

(3) employing any kind of physical violence, moral compulsion and psychological pressure e.g. the use of certain advertising techniques in mass media that might bring undue pressure on readers/viewers;

(4) using political, social and economic power as a means of winning new members for one’s own church;

(5) extending explicit or implicit offers of education, health care or material inducements or using financial resources with the intent of making converts;

(6) manipulative attitudes and practices that exploit people’s needs, weaknesses or lack of education especially in situations of distress, and fail to respect their freedom and human dignity.

Which ones apply to the Baha'is?

I've certainly seen a lot of (1) and (2) from non-Baha'is here so do you consider yourself one who proselytizes?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Whitestone goes back to page 809 posts 16173, 16176 and 16178.

I wonder who greeted Him

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The question is, why was the world still ignoring His advice?

If the King of Berlin had implemented the advice in the late 1800's.....well!!!

Regards Tony

What do Baha'is suggest the world leaders to do? Proclaim peace and get rid of all the nukes and guns? Neighborhoods in cities in the U.S. are war zones. Baha'is have been here for well over a hundred year, but where are they? Why aren't they in the forefront bringing change? Why Gandhi, Martin Luther King and others? Did Baha'is march with them? Or is that against Baha'i rules?

 

[CG Didymus]

I wonder who greeted Him

Regards Tony

Greeted him with what? You linked him to Baha'i writings that contradict and challenge his beliefs. Unfortunately, he hasn't posted anything else.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

To try and unite the world in peace and harmony is great. But, then Baha'is say all religions are one?

CG it is said the source of the Great Beings is our One God.

It is then up to us to unravel how that is so. There are a lot of veils.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What do Baha'is suggest the world leaders to do? Proclaim peace and get rid of all the nukes and guns? Neighborhoods in cities in the U.S. are war zones. Baha'is have been here for well over a hundred year, but where are they? Why aren't they in the forefront bringing change? Why Gandhi, Martin Luther King and others? Did Baha'is march with them? Or is that against Baha'i rules?

Baha'u'llah has said the peace and security of the world is unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established.

The process has been given to achieve this and the Baha'is are participating in all aspects of the unfoldment.

This is a 1985 presentation to the world - The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Of the many ex-Baha'is I've talked to on-line, the most common reason certainly isn't that they were converted away from it. It's that they became disillusioned with Baha'i teachings, or discovered it no longer made sense to them. Most who got converted to Baha'i stopped practicing because they found out about the homosexuality, gender equality, or other problems, and realised they were deceived initially. Born Baha'is leave for the same reason ... they just realise that it's mostly been a lie, and want to spread their wings. So there are many reasons.

I think most people who leave any religions just do it on their own accord, and the most common destination is 'no religion'. It's also common in mixed faith marriages for one to switch in hopes of marital harmony.

Hinduism as a religion is thousands of years old. You have had ample opportunity to get it right. So why has enlightened India never fully embraced homosexuality? Is it currently legal? How about gender equality in the history of Hinduism? Where are all those female priests? Why so long to address the glaring inequality with the caste system?

 

[CG Didymus]

The pretending is saying that all religions agree when they don't. Some things in common? Sure. But, God, truth and reality are all defined differently.

Great Beings? Adam? Noah? Abraham? Moses? How many others from Judaism? How many do Jews say we're "manifestations"?

The Bible? Do you believe it is historically accurate? I doubt it. Creation, the Flood, the Resurrection... Real or symbolic? Yet, you believe the people were real? But how can you when you don't believe the events about their lives that are described in the Bible did not really happen?

To try and unite the world in peace and harmony is great. But, then Baha'is say all religions are one? At the same time you're telling them that the religions they are following have been corrupted with false dogmas and beliefs. So where is the oneness? If they don't leave their false beliefs, how can Baha'is be one with them?

Can you be one with a Christian that believes in the false belief that Jesus rose physically from the dead? Can you be one with a Hindu that believes in reincarnation? Or, will you tell them they are wrong?

CG it is said the source of the Great Beings is our One God.

It is then up to us to unravel how that is so. There are a lot of veils.

Regards Tony

Can you comment on the rest of the post? Especially on Adam, a Great Being or a mythological character?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Greeted him with what? You linked him to Baha'i writings that contradict and challenge his beliefs. Unfortunately, he hasn't posted anything else.

That is not an accurate portrayal of how I responded, but I did acknowledge His/Her responses and offer that there is other considerations to what He/She posted.

It is a debate forum.

I was willing to discuss it all much further as there is much passion behind posts such as those.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'u'llah has said the peace and security of the world is unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established.

The process has been given to achieve this and the Baha'is are participating in all aspects of the unfoldment.

This is a 1985 presentation to the world - The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Regards Tony

I've read and heard it at Baha'i meetings and went to a Baha'i peace conference in San Francisco. Now it's more than 30 years later. Have the Baha'is been promoting their Peace message and discussing how to implement it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thank you Whitestone. I enjoy attending Church services each week in my hometown. I have many a great chat with the Pastor.

God bless you always and there is no better questions than you have asked.

It is what God always wants us to ask our own selves and consider how it applies within ourselves, each and every day.

Most importantly, turn the answer to deeds.

Revellation chapters 11 and 12 contain great Truths.

Greeted him with what? You linked him to Baha'i writings that contradict and challenge his beliefs. Unfortunately, he hasn't posted anything else.

Had to go back and look. I think the replies were quite appropriate given the substance of his posts which were doctrinal explained bible quotes, which are open to an alternate response.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

That is not an accurate portrayal of how I responded, but I did acknowledge His/Her responses and offer that there is other considerations to what He/She posted.

It is a debate forum.

I was willing to discuss it all much further as there is much passion behind posts such as those.

Regards Tony

You linked him to some cornerstone thing and to a couple of others, one was something in Some Answered Questions. So right off the focus is not on unity and finding common ground, it is to try and change and challenge a persons beliefs. Which is fine. If you are a proselytizing religion that believes you are the only one that is right.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you comment on the rest of the post? Especially on Adam, a Great Being or a mythological character?

I see the story of Adam as the birth of mans Spiritual Awakening. Adam would have been the bringer of that Message.

I can offer no better explanation than the Kitabi-i-quan;

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán

It is the answer you have requested and this has been posted before.

May I suggest you attempt a read of this in its entirety. If you then have questions on its contents we can examine them further.

I enjoy this tablet and highly recommend it.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Had to go back and look. I think the replies were quite appropriate given the substance of his posts which were doctrinal explained bible quotes, which are open to an atrnate response.

Regards Tony

But why did Whitestone leave? Like Ragin Pagin, Siti and so many others? Are people being brought together and feeling the acceptance or being challenged for what they believe and pushed away?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I've read and heard it at Baha'i meetings and went to a Baha'i peace conference in San Francisco. Now it's more than 30 years later. Have the Baha'is been promoting their Peace message and discussing how to implement it?

Yes, with all those that choose to listen, but then action is required.

I would ask where are the hearts that want to embrace the change and put it into action? Consider, many here post about the lack of numbers.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I see the story of Adam as the birth of mans Spiritual Awakening. Adam would have been the bringer of that Message.

I can offer no better explanation than the Kitabi-i-quan;

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán

It is the answer you have requested and this has been posted before.

May I suggest you attempt a read of this in its entirety. If you then have questions on its contents we can examine them further.

I enjoy this tablet and highly recommend it.

Regards Tony

Which pages talk about Adam? Or am I supposed to read the whole thing?