How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

This is from a Hindu publication and it says it all for me why I like so much mixing with ‘godly’ people even though they may have opposite or very different beliefs. I feel a kind of security around people like you all here because you all love what is good.

Here is the kind of world that frightens me and coming to places like this keeps my spirit alive.

Existentialism offers—
in the place of devotion and yoga and inner attainment—a
dark view of man and of the universe. It postulates that there
is no inherent meaning in life, nor is there immortality of
the soul. It tells its follower that he cannot know order or
har mony, for he is essentially a troubled being who must rely
only on himself. It is a self-centered system, whereas Hindu-
ism is a selfless, evolutionary, God-centric system.

I live in a world surrounded by existentialism and it’s tye worst hell for the spirit. People here love God and people and Causes and that’s why I never grow tired of you guys because in a dark world many of you are spiritually uplifting.

And yet I'm sure existentialism as a philosophy has a reason for its existence. It must be a karma one has to go through, from a Hindu POV. Of course everyone has the right to believe what h they wish. We are free to agree or to disagree.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks Vinayaka. I really appreciate you sharing that with me. And it sounds like you had a very beautiful experience.

Nothing beautiful about it. Normal part of life. We mystic Hindus don't see the mystical as anything special. It's normal.

Very different paradigms.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And yet I'm sure existentialism as a philosophy has a reason for its existence. It must be a karma one has to go through, from a Hindu POV. Of course everyone has the right to believe what h they wish. We are free to agree or to disagree.

Yes it has its own lessons to teach.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Nothing beautiful about it. Normal part of life. We mystic Hindus don't see the mystical as anything special. It's normal.

Very different paradigms.

So it’s not unique to have these visions?

To me I felt it was beautiful because it was unique to me and as I have never experienced such things.

 

[Dawnofhope]

OB and I are the 'trolls', Carlita. One of the strategies to argue against people who disagree with you is to call them a troll. Then you get people telling each other, "I'm not the troll. You're the troll!" It's funny, yes.

Adrian is right, though, my stance here has changed. I used to be more diplomatic with the debating, but after awhile when nothing really gives, a certain amount of frustration sets in. I used to refrain more from saying stuff that was downright insulting, just because I knew it was insulting, if nothing else. But that stuff is out there on the internet about Baha'i, and when you read both sides, eventually you come to distrust both sides. Each one, just like the 'trolling' accusations, legitimately wonders where the other side is getting their information. We do know, just from the links and quotes given, that the Baha'i get most, if not all of their stuff, from official Baha'i newsletters and information. But there's always another side, so who knows, really? Some folks like to deny that there even is another side. So ultimately, I know nothing, and can only read a lot of stuff, and come to some king of educated guess.

Every week I meet with a friend who is a new Baha'i and we study together. He also has a member of the Jehovah witnesses come round weekly and this has been a good opportunity for my friend to learn more about Christianity. Its a conversation that he has been having for about six months and yesterday my friend was becoming intensely frustrated and angry by some of the beliefs held by the JWs.

The JW guy who visits is in his mid 70s and has been going door to door for over thirty years. He is totally convinced and secure in the correctness of his views that his particular view of Christianity is the only correct one and all the other Christian denominations are wrong, let along peoples of differing faiths. He feels very happy that he will be one of the 144,000 who will be saved and sees the visits with my friend as an opportunity to correct my friend from the error of his ways so he too can have eternal life.

I had to remind my friend to accept people as they are. For the most part we have to let people be who they are without trying to change them. If we are unable to accept others, we are the ones who become angry and frustrated. That's not helpful for anyone.

 

[Vinayaka]

So it’s not unique to have these visions?

Not for many Hindus, but many won't talk about it. Years of ridicule, combined with natural humility, makes it so we generally won't say much at all. There is also a belief that speaking of mystic stuff reduces the power of it. So yes, it's quiet secret knowledge. I honestly can't imagine what some swamis and renunciates go through. Certainly very unworldly stuff. I'm just an ordinary guy, nothing special at all.

 

[Vinayaka]

Every week I meet with a friend who is a new Baha'i and we study together. He also has a member of the Jehovah witnesses come round weekly and this has been a good opportunity for my friend to learn more about Christianity. Its a conversation that he has been having for about six months and yesterday my friend was becoming intensely frustrated and angry by some of the beliefs held by the JWs.

The JW guy who visits is in his mid 70s and has been going door to door for over thirty years. He is totally convinced and secure in the correctness of his views that his particular view of Christianity is the only correct one and all the other Christian denominations are wrong, let along peoples of differing faiths. He feels very happy that he will be one of the 144,000 who will be saved and sees the visits with my friend as an opportunity to correct my friend from the error of his ways so he too can have eternal life.

I had to remind my friend to accept people as they are. For the most part we have to let people be who they are without trying to change them. If we are unable to accept others, we are the ones who become angry and frustrated. That's not helpful for anyone.

Hindus aren't the ones out there proselytizing, trying to change everyone else to their ways. Why? It's because we do accept people for who they are, their belief system. Proselytizing faiths, practically by definition, don't. Like I've said may times, what the world needs is mutual respect, not some prophet to save only the chosen people.

 

[oldbadger]

I enjoy the challenge of your questions

Tony... Tony............... please............. the question was yours. Remember?

So there is some foundation to what I offer and why I see the plight of the Baha'is in the Birth place of 2 Revelations as being significant, it is because this passage of Prophecy that has been unfolding:

But I don't believe in Revelations, any of it, let alone Rev 2.

Tell me how the Cambodian genocide fitted in to Bahai, or Zambian, and I'll read your answers with care.

Persecution is a Virus, it is appropriate to compare all these events in history, as the only reason there is not greater genocide that took place in the past is because of the miracle of modern communications and the scrutiny of the world about all these atrocities.

Well then............... I look forward to you comparing such events. But there have been so many mass killings and genocides in the last 30 years that you'll be studying the subject for the next several years, I expect.

No Genocide is occuring in Iran. No Genocide.
If you believed that then you must be indoctrinated somehow?

The amazing thing is Modern communication was born from the first ever message sent on the day after the declaration of the Bab

I would be more impressed if the Bab had actually invented the land-line. It seems that everything that has ever happened since 1844 is because of ..... Bahai. But sadly all the dreadful tragedies since 1844 seem to have been caused by other forces.

Baha'u'llah has also said in this age no thing a man has commited will remain unknown, even if they think they have done it in full secret.

Of course he did! Muslims and Christians were all warned about same. Sadly it doesn't work, because some Bahais, Muslims and Christians have all done bad things.

I do not know why you keep saying in a Baha' World no one will get a vote. They actually have to vote more if one chooses to be a Baha'i.

But in a Bahai World a % of the people would still not be Bahais. So 'No Vote'.

You have your Local area and Country Elections to which you participate in and then we also have the Baha'i Electoral process and we embrace both in a spirit of service to all humanity.

Regards Tony

In a Bahai World there would only be local, national; Bahai elections where Bahai is in majority. You are in a Theocracy.

And did you seek to discover how many Bahai executions have taken place in recent years? 5, 10 or 20 year period would be good for review.
Investigation is good.

 

[oldbadger]

I made a grammatical error. I meant like in the past as when Hitler was alive. They had a target pained on their backs then no matter how innocent they were. That is what I really meant to say. Sorry for not making it clear. My wrong.

Target painted on their backs?
No, LH, they didn't.
In Hitler's camps they wore an armband and/or breast badge to show what kind of prisoner they were.
There were many different armbands.

It's best to investigate for facts if possible.

 

[oldbadger]

OB and I are the 'trolls', Carlita. One of the strategies to argue against people who disagree with you is to call them a troll.

If you don't like 'em, BRAND 'em!

That has been happening through this thrread. My words have been reversed into other meanings. I have been told what I think, what I would do, what I support etc. I have been accused of 'demonising.'
Mention has been made of excessive Pride etc.....

Back in the day, if a person asked difficult questions at introductory meetings (firesides?) the Bahais would all be so polite, but when the person was gone they would back-bight about it all.

Adrian is right, though, my stance here has changed.

Me too!
But look at all the insults, veiled and direct, that have been thrown at us.

 

[oldbadger]

I have discovered a new word though...

Internet troll - Wikipedia

RF moderation is swift and just.
Just push the report-button and you will be attended very quickly.

I personally have never reported a 'bad-post' in many years. The five members who have challenged most on this thread have written many thousands of posts, and are still here after many years, which might show that we can behave ourselves.

However, I have had to defend against some naughty posts on this thread.............. how about you?

Trolling. The RF Definition:-
1) Content (whether words or images) that most people would find needlessly offensive, especially when such content is posted just to get a rise out of somebody and/or is not part of a reasoned argument.

2) Defamation, slander, or misrepresentation of a member's beliefs/arguments, or that of a particular group, culture, or religion. This includes altering the words of another member to change their meaning when using the quote feature.

3) Antagonism, bullying, or harassment - including but not limited to personal attacks, slander, and misrepresentation - of a member across multiple content areas of the forums. Repeatedly targeting or harassing members of particular groups will also be considered bullying.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

They "pretend" to agree and believe in the other major religions. That is the most negative and troubling thing about the Baha'i Faith for me. It just happened with Whitestone, a Christian.

But for you too, there is nothing they believe is true about your beliefs, yet act as if they do. Except when they say you are wrong and deluded.

Have no doubt CG that it is much bigger than that. There is no 'pretend' if you give your life to your belief. I state now that there is no person on this planet can make a Baha'i reject any Messenger from God. This Faith is not a plaything for the ignorant, this is real, from the heart, built on rock.

I think we have made it very clear that this belief is based entirely on what the Great Beings have said, not what man has made of those teachings. It is obvious this will cause deep debate, how do you think just one of these Faiths, Christianity, split into around 40,000 branches! We have learned Hinduism is very vast and many schools of thought.

This post has been from the time I arrived an offer to explore what the Great Beings have said, the problem being most of those that post do no believe in the concept of Great Beings, so why would they explore this when they see something that clashes with a current understanding? Would you like to do this, lets pick a subject such as Justice and see what writing we can find from the Great Beings on Justice.

If you think that it is pretend and to pursue a unity of thought is negative, it is better we sop right now, none of us will gain any benefit from any further discussion.

Now as for Wrong and Deluded statements. This is the domain of the Great Beings, this is their call, not ours, we can only post their advice that is given to each and all of us and not to any one particular person, race or religion.

We could also explore this, what do the Great Beings say upon this subject.

Hope you are well and happy, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The original question was 'How do you explain the Great Beings'. My explanation was 'they don't exist'. That's a decent explanation for a person like me who believes that. Of course it fails completely if you take that for granted.

One would have to prove they did not exist and not just make a blanket statement as such. A person would have to prove that there was not a Krishna that inspired Millions and continue to do so, that there was not a Zoroaster, a Abraham, a Moses, a Jesus Christ and Muhammad that did likewise. That they had nothing extra special that achieved this Unity of Thought.

If this is no done, then all one could offer is that they play no importance in their life, not that they do not exist.

As I believe they do exist and there is records of Words they have spoken, then I am free to debate with others that have Faith in any one or all of them, if what they say is in harmony.

I would debate that the position of 'they don't exist' is a position of blissful ignorance and not based in any fact. Of course when we debate it is the thought that is being debated, not the sincerity and character of the person.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, there is a certain building frustration in all of this. I guess I can add 'troll' to my growing list now. I think Whitestone's posts got deleted, I couldn't find them. You have a number still?

I like Whitestone, what was the issue here? I still have His posts, here is one - How are these Great Beings explained?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There were many, and I don't usually share because it will get ridiculed by people who don't believe in reincarnation, and tell me I'm a creative writer, deny my experience, or otherwise give condescending comments. but I'll share one. I think I told it to you before, but I will again, because if I did tell you, you would have discarded the memory.

My friend died tragically in a tragic accident, age 22. He had a premonition about it, and bought a life insurance policy with his parents as benefactors. I saw him about 3 weeks before the tragedy. I went to the funeral, a sad deal, way too Christian for comfort as he was agnostic, maybe atheist. Parents didn't know what else to do, but were glad I, and some other friends were there. I knew the Mom well, had been a colleague at one time.

Two hours later, at the burial, I sensed 'hovering' and looked up to the top of a tree. It shook ... on a windless day, I was the only one who noticed. It was him. He rode back to his parent's place for the 'wake' or lunch. We all had some good stories, the usual. But when I went to leave, Mom and dad both hugged me, and it was then that I knew. He rode in the car, just like we had so many times before. I stopped and bought 2 coffees, and put one in the holder on his side. He didn't drink it, lol so I did, on his behalf. We 'talked' (inner talk) some, and it was clear he wanted into our family. My wife knew when I got home after the 3 hour drive. 'I see you brought a guest' ... Because we all knew, there was less time between births, and we accepted his request. He had always dreamed of more normalcy, and has now grown into a mature 37 year old with a wife and two kids. My wife conceived a bout a week later, she always knew from mystical visions when she was pregnant, she was 6 for 6 on that. (One was miscarried)

In very early childhood, he spoke of coming from a tree, riding in the same car, drumming, and other stuff relating to his past life. All that waned eventually as he developed the personality of this lifetime.

We had good karma together, the 3 of us. My wife once told me that he was probably the only other person she could have married, had I been successful on my quest to be a monk.

So there you go. Take it or leave it, lol.

I take it, albeit with a slightly different understanding, great story thank you.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

And yes that is one of the many 'conceptions' of God. There are plenty more.

For me, everything that I can see, touch, smell, sense, perceive, is a part of God.
But then, evereythging that I cannot perceive is God as well.
God is the everythingness......... and the nothingness.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, there is a certain building frustration in all of this. I guess I can add 'troll' to my growing list now. I think Whitestone's posts got deleted, I couldn't find them. You have a number still?

If any member's posts got deleted, then it is because somebody reported them.

If that is true, then we have a calibration to work from. You could feel certain that if any of your posts could be deleted then they would have been. Yes?

I don't mind it when members hold forth, telling me that my day of judgement is coming and I'm going to be writhing in agony for ever, etc Great stuff tio read..............

But when I'm told that I believe in 'ketchup on baby sandwiches' (or whatever) then kit really is time to defend.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Target painted on their backs?
No, LH, they didn't.
In Hitler's camps they wore an armband and/or breast badge to show what kind of prisoner they were.
There were many different armbands.

It's best to investigate for facts if possible.

I meant figuratively.

However, these kinds of oppression and abuses that go on only highlight the world’s lack of unity because unitedly the world could without force, prevent any regime from abusing its own people. They could cut all trade and finance or as a last resort intervene but only empty UN resolutions show clearly that a world divided amongst itself allows the dictator to thrive and human rights abuses to flourish.

With world solidarity these problems and many others could be easily solved.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Not for many Hindus, but many won't talk about it. Years of ridicule, combined with natural humility, makes it so we generally won't say much at all. There is also a belief that speaking of mystic stuff reduces the power of it. So yes, it's quiet secret knowledge. I honestly can't imagine what some swamis and renunciates go through. Certainly very unworldly stuff. I'm just an ordinary guy, nothing special at all.

From my personal experience I have discovered that Hindus moreso to their credit than many other religionists are extremely tolerant even accepting of other religions. How is this and why is this so and why for instance isn’t that the feeling in mainstream Christianity or Islam.

When I mention my religion to a Christian or a Muslim I get either shot down or interrogated or both (slowly changing) but to a Hindu or Buddhist I get welcomed and treated with respect and courtesy.

I know there are groups within the Abrahamic religions that are beginning to become fed up with this posture and would rather be on friendly terms with everyone but Hindus and the origin of their tolerance interest me.

On that note thanks for all your tolerance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you don't like 'em, BRAND 'em!

That has been happening through this thrread. My words have been reversed into other meanings. I have been told what I think, what I would do, what I support etc. I have been accused of 'demonising.'
Mention has been made of excessive Pride etc.....

Back in the day, if a person asked difficult questions at introductory meetings (firesides?) the Bahais would all be so polite, but when the person was gone they would back-bight about it all.


Me too!
But look at all the insults, veiled and direct, that have been thrown at us.

No you don’t demonize. I retract that. You’re a good person. I made a boo boo in the heat of discussion. I’m sorry.