How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

I think he knows too. He's been here awhile as well.

There are two types of Knowledge.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Here's a nice video explaining proselytizing:

 

[Vinayaka]

There are two types of Knowledge.

In my opinion, there are hundreds of types of knowledge. Again, just a suggestion here, but it might help dialogue if you considered not stating your Baha'i influenced opinions as if they were fact. They're not.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have read quite a few of testimonies of people that have left the Baha'i faith and all other Faiths to boot. The common word used is I. Our greatest trap, as with God there is no I, it is us.

And yet you began this statement with 'I'. What gives?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hm. How does their historical existence, if proven, make them great beings anymore than you and I? I mean, I wouldn't worship anyone today who is alive. Not many people do until they die. Then probably five hundred years minimum, they are upgraded to the point of worship. If they are in the B.C., even better chance. (Being sarcastic on purpose )

Jesus and Muhammad didn't ask their followers to worship them. Moses, most definitely not. Abraham would think it idolism if you worshiped anyone other than god.

So, is there more reason to revere these people besides their historical existence and what they did that they did not do the last five hundred years?

Hello Carlita, great to hear from you

I guess the best way is to ask ourselves that question, is how many people extol our names and are inspired to give back to all humanity because of belief in what we said.

Also important is that with the Name we are Praising God, the giver of Names.

I see the need to give to the Great Beings at the least what they deserve' and that is respect of what their lives and Messages gave to the world.

Hope you are well and most importantly happy.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

When you have a billion people, there will be problems, of course. You won't believe this, but much of the problems you speak of were assimilated over time because of Islam being a neighbour and stuff like gender inequality rubbing off.

Yes, the Muslims have treated the Hindus badly, I agree. But as part of your (non-proselytizing) attack on the Baha'i Faith, telling us how good Hinduism is and how bad the Abrahamics are, you are partnered with one who blames the Baha'is for their persecution at the hands of the Muslims. What's that about?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In my opinion, there are hundreds of types of knowledge. Again, just a suggestion here, but it might help dialogue if you considered not stating your Baha'i influenced opinions as if they were fact. They're not.

There are many branches of Knowledge, I talk about the source.

There is our Material learning and there is our Spiritual Learning and within these branches, an unlimited amount of knowledge is available.

You have said the fear of God is unhealthy, Baha'u'llah has said; "Fear God and God will give you knowledge." (Bahá’u’lláh, The Seven Valleys, p. 3)

Abdul'baha gave further of this thought;

"Is it not astonishing that although man has been created for the knowledge and love of God, for the virtues of the human world, for spirituality, heavenly illumination and life eternal, nevertheless he continues ignorant and negligent of all this? Consider how he seeks knowledge of everything except knowledge of God.(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 64)

This is a challenge for all of us to embrace, or to continue in the life we know.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, the Muslims have treated the Hindus badly, I agree. But as part of your (non-proselytizing) attack on the Baha'i Faith, telling us how good Hinduism is and how bad the Abrahamics are, you are partnered with one who blames the Baha'is for their persecution at the hands of the Muslims. What's that about?

As I've said many times, I believe God created (emanated) all religions, and made many differences in them so that people all have a place to call home. I have nothing against any religion, unless they want everyone else to become like them. So that means proselytizing is out, for me. But since it is a core belief of many religions, I realise it has to be. It's sad, but some people must have the psychological need to project their personal biases onto the rest of humanity. I do hope that changes but I don't have high hopes either. Soul evolution takes lifetimes.

I'm not in cahoots with OB on that one. Persecution is persecution, and on the grand scale of numbers, the Baha'i get off easily, especially when compared to the Rohingya, the Yemenis, the Tamils in Sri Lanka, and many others. But we never seem to hear the Baha'i speaking up for those atrocities, it's only the persecution in Iran they seem to care about. I find that odd.

 

[Vinayaka]

There are many branches of Knowledge, I talk about the source.

There is our Material learning and there is our Spiritual Learning and within these branches, an unlimited amount of knowledge is available.

You have said the fear of God is unhealthy, Baha'u'llah has said; "Fear God and God will give you knowledge. (Bahá’u’lláh, The Seven Valleys, p. 3)

Abdul'baha gave further of this thought;

"Is it not astonishing that although man has been created for the knowledge and love of God, for the virtues of the human world, for spirituality, heavenly illumination and life eternal, nevertheless he continues ignorant and negligent of all this? Consider how he seeks knowledge of everything except knowledge of God.(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 64)

This is a challenge for all of us to embrace, or to continue in the life we know.

Yes, that is your Baha'i belief. I know. Already. I don't share in most of it. The Hindu God can never be feared, He is Love.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And yet you began this statement with 'I'. What gives?

Of course that would be what was considered in that post. I is necessary when referring to what I did.

I read a book is not a selfish based remark.

I wanted more out of life, I saw a conflict of belief, I want to live life the way I choose, is concentrating on the self aspect of I.

It is the latter that is prevalent in testimonies why a person withdrew from a Faith. Sometimes those references to I are not Unhealthy, a lot of the time they are extreamly unhealthy.

Regards Tony

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess that after a while they all just got bored.
I certainly do feel bored, as my recent posts must have shown
I'm fed up to the back teeth with the subject matter and really do need a break.
I'll go and annoy @Revoltingest .......... at least that's fun.

I'll be back later........... please keep my place.

You're a mere amateur at being annoying.
Watch & learn, bubba!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As I've said many times, I believe God created (emanated) all religions, and made many differences in them so that people all have a place to call home. I have nothing against any religion, unless they want everyone else to become like them. So that means proselytizing is out, for me. But since it is a core belief of many religions, I realise it has to be. It's sad, but some people must have the psychological need to project their personal biases onto the rest of humanity. I do hope that changes but I don't have high hopes either. Soul evolution takes lifetimes.

I'm not in cahoots with OB on that one. Persecution is persecution, and on the grand scale of numbers, the Baha'i get off easily, especially when compared to the Rohingya, the Yemenis, the Tamils in Sri Lanka, and many others. But we never seem to hear the Baha'i speaking up for those atrocities, it's only the persecution in Iran they seem to care about. I find that odd.

That was a good post.

We see all Persecution as what it is, Persecution, we call for all of it to stop.

I see it like a ripple on the Water, the stone was thrown into the sea of Faith in its birthplace Persia, it was more than a stone compared to times past, it was a rock and the ripples now spread out across the world.

Persecution will not stop until the Stones stop being thrown in the middle of the sea.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

When you have a billion people, there will be problems, of course. You won't believe this, but much of the problems you speak of were assimilated over time because of Islam being a neighbour and stuff like gender inequality rubbing off.

We do have female priests, and caste based discrimination remains a problem in some areas. Caste itself isn't the problem, it's caste based discrimination. Gender itself is not a problem, it's gender based discrimination. But that stuff exists in all communities. The Christian graveyards in the south have two sections ... one is for the untouchables.

I suppose with India having an overwhelming 85% majority in India, and no longer under the rule of Islam or the Christian British Empire, we will finally get to find out what Hinduism a civilisation based on Hinduism really looks look...or do we? I would guess that Western secular values have just as much influence on India than Hinduism if not more.

We could look to the sacred writings of Hinduism but there is no agreement about what constitutes that body of literature, and then as you have said Hinduism is not book based. I suppose we will never get to see what a Hindu civilisation really looks like.

 

[Vinayaka]

Of course that would be what was considered in that post. I is necessary when referring to what I did.

I read a book is not a selfish based remark.

I wanted more out of life, I saw a conflict of belief, I want to live life the way I choose, is concentrating on the self aspect of I.

It is the latter that is prevalent in testimonies why a person withdrew from a Faith. Sometimes those references to I are not Unhealthy, a lot of the time they are extreamly unhealthy.

There are literally thousands of folks who have left faiths, including mine. I would not make generalisations. Each person's situation is unique, in my view. All have personal reasons. For some, it is the best thing that ever happened to them, and congratulations is in order. They become so happy, just being able to say what they think without feeling pressured. Others, sure, they are depressed, or have lost a lot. In all cases, much like divorce, it is not something I could ever dismiss casually. In my own small sampradaya, I've witnessed many people leave, all for a great variety of reasons, like to keep a marriage alive, trouble keeping up the vows, or commitment, growing tired of it, or bored.

I left my faith for a period of about 10 years ... at least physically, if not spiritually. It's no casual idea, for sure.

From the many Baha'i stories I've read in the past few months, many are gut wrenching in their honesty. Some lost family or friends over it, perhaps even spouses. Others felt just so relieved. Very very few have gone back on the attack as some sort of revenge, just happy to go quietly on their way, to new horizons.

In my view, to label them all as unhealthy is just plain cruel. I sincerely hope you reconsider that statement.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, that is your Baha'i belief. I know. Already. I don't share in most of it. The Hindu God can never be feared, He is Love.

As I also know that is what you believe.

What do you call the personal choice of rejection of that Love by our own actions?

Is this thought by Adib Taherzadeh that he gave in the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 2, p. 94 in tune with any of your ideas?

"In several Tablets Bahá’u’lláh has described the fear of God as the cause of nearness to Him. This statement may be difficult for some to appreciate. For why should a loving God be feared? Fear is engendered in man when he feels inadequate to deal with a situation, and confidence is generated when he finds himself completely in control. For example, a man who has been given a responsibility but has failed to fulfil his obligations will be filled with fear when he meets his superiors, because he knows that they will deal with him with justice. Man, in this life, fails to carry out the commandments of God. He commits sins and violates the laws of God. In such a case how can he feel at ease when he knows that one day he will be called on to account for his deeds? If man does not fear God, it is a sign either that he is without shortcomings or that he has no faith in the next life when he will have to answer for his wrong-doings."

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That was a good post.

We see all Persecution as what it is, Persecution, we call for all of it to stop.

I see it like a ripple on the Water, the stone was thrown into the sea of Faith in its birthplace Persia, it was more than a stone compared to times past, it was a rock and the ripples now spread out across the world.

Persecution will not stop until the Stones stop being thrown in the middle of the sea.

The ripple metaphor makes no sense to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

Is this thought by Adib Taherzadeh that he gave in the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 2, p. 94 in tune with any of your ideas?

No.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are literally thousands of folks who have left faiths, including mine. I would not make generalisations. Each person's situation is unique, in my view. All have personal reasons. For some, it is the best thing that ever happened to them, and congratulations is in order. They become so happy, just being able to say what they think without feeling pressured. Others, sure, they are depressed, or have lost a lot. In all cases, much like divorce, it is not something I could ever dismiss casually. In my own small sampradaya, I've witnessed many people leave, all for a great variety of reasons, like to keep a marriage alive, trouble keeping up the vows, or commitment, growing tired of it, or bored.

I left my faith for a period of about 10 years ... at least physically, if not spiritually. It's no casual idea, for sure.

From the many Baha'i stories I've read in the past few months, many are gut wrenching in their honesty. Some lost family or friends over it, perhaps even spouses. Others felt just so relieved. Very very few have gone back on the attack as some sort of revenge, just happy to go quietly on their way, to new horizons.

In my view, to label them all as unhealthy is just plain cruel. I sincerely hope you reconsider that statement.

You need to read what I said again. I offered there was variants of the use of I.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I suppose with India having an overwhelming 85% majority in India, and no longer under the rule of Islam or the Christian British Empire, we will finally get to find out what Hinduism a civilisation based on Hinduism really looks look...or do we? I would guess that Western secular values have just as much influence on India than Hinduism if not more.

We could look to the sacred writings of Hinduism but there is no agreement about what constitutes that body of literature, and then as you have said Hinduism is not book based. I suppose we will never get to see what a Hindu civilisation really looks like.

Probably not, no. You're certainly accurate about western secular values. Here, in Canada, if you watch patterns, it may be possible to maintain things through 4 or 5 generations of immigrants. Maybe not. Larger communities have a better chance. India is just so vast. Some of those temples still draw over 100 000 pilgrims a day. In many ways, India is like a walk into history, just now learning how bad cigarettes and sugar are for you, for example.

I would certainly hope that minorities aren't discriminated against, but there is an overzealous Hindu element looking for revenge too. So far the law has handled them quite well. But again, its just so vast. There will always be isolated incidents.

 

[Vinayaka]

You need to read what I said again. I offered there was variants of the use of I.

Regards Tony

This is what you said: " It is the latter that is prevalent in testimonies why a person withdrew from a Faith. Sometimes those references to I are not Unhealthy, a lot of the time they are extreamly unhealthy."

What I read is that you're saying people who withdraw from a faith are self-centered, and extremely unhealthy people. Perhaps you did mean something different. I really don't know, and often I don't know what you mean.

I don't see it as a selfish act at all. A person has to do what a person has to do. At some point we all have to look out for our own mental and spiritual health, and God gave us free will to decide what is best. If your faith is depressing you, or making you broke, or other wise making it hard to survive, than its best to get out, for all concerned. I've seen people put their faith before their marriage and have divorces. Rather than look at themselves as being overly religious, they blame the spouse. So who is the selfish one in those cases?

My Guru advised, in that situation, 'Go with your husband. We're definitely not in the business of causing divorces."