How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you understand my issue about the dates?

I disagree with "greater" knowledge, "higher" being, "great" beings, etc. Ive met people that would fit the attributes listed you relate to Great beings.

1895 wasnt that long ago. If we dont worship people alive today and people have the same characteristics now as then, what makes them worthy of worship that people with the same attributes bypass our worship today?

Point: I understand Bahai belief. Im asking you this in relation to dates.

1800s is recent. What was special about then (B.C. even) that we are missing today? Did we stop becoming great beings at a certain time period? When? How?

Carlita this concept requires one to Beleive in God and God as the giver of the Great Beings.

When a person does not believe in God, then it is likely that we would make a God of our own self. This means that we think we are in control, that we would be equal to a Great Being. In many cases now I hear on web posts that prople say they are greater, as they have more knowledge and would do a better job.

What we are missing today is submission, submission to a higher wisdom.

When all knowledge was released by the Revelation of the Bab, as promised in Biblical Passages, this released this potential in us.

Now comes the challenge, we have this capacity, but do we submit to the source, or do we think we are the source. This is the test we face.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Often we've disagreed because we don't see them as points of unity? Is there a problem with offering a different POV?

There is no Problem if one wishes to see each subject in a different way.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

We learn that we can not rely upon our own understanding and trust what it is saying to our Spiritual selves.

What I have seen there is people that do understand these concepts very well. The more we open to our spiritual existence, the more that is found.

Regards Tony

Yes people that understand those concepts are called Baha'is. Those that believe the New Testament is the literal word of God are called Christians. But there are people that disagree with both.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita this concept requires one to Beleive in God and God as the giver of the Great Beings.

If any person (any person) wanted to believe in any god, they would need to understand what and/or who a god is first. If you can't explain what Great/Higher/Most and other terms I never had growing up, how can you expect people like me (which is kinda rare in America) to understand these terms apart from what we read, hear on t.v., and read on a thread?

When a person does not believe in God, then it is likely that we would make a God of our own self. This means that we think we are in control, that we would be equal to a Great Being. In many cases now I hear on web posts that prople say they are greater, as they have more knowledge and would do a better job.

This is not a bad thing nor is it negative.

The Buddha taught: It is all about ourselves (man) not a higher power (No Brahma)

He taught we are in control: We control our mind and how we perceive the world. (Not heart first, mind first)

He taught (In Mahayana view) that all sentient beings-you, me, The Buddha, everyone has the potential to be Buddhas (enlightened). There is no higher/lower. Even the gods are in samsara.

That's what I believe. These are beliefs rather than statements of fact.

What we are missing today is submission, submission to a higher wisdom.

"Higher"??

The reason what you are saying does not make sense is you are using terms in sentences and you repeat the sentence in another way, paraphrasing it without describing the terms themselves.

It's like saying "I go to the store and I kaufen one more thing then I come home and after using it, I sit it on top of the t.v.

You can rephrase this many times, but you have to define the foreign term (and in what language) for it makes some sort of sense.

Dialogue involves some forms of asking for clarification. It helps get beyond the basics.

When all knowledge was released by the Revelation of the Bab, as promised in Biblical Passages, this released this potential in us.

This was pretty recent, though. I live with people who are almost in their 100s. Can you imagine what year their great greats were born?!

If the bab lived today, would a Bahai still give the same worship and attention to him as a living person as she would someone who passed away none to recently?

Now comes the challenge, we have this capacity, but do we submit to the source, or do we think we are the source. This is the test we face.

Source???

I remember asking to define god and one of Bahai said it was an essence. The website said something like that.

I don't understand that term so it's pronouns and adjectives: source, higher, greater, etc go over my head. You need to define the noun before you talk about it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes people that understand those concepts are called Baha'is. Those that believe the New Testament is the literal word of God are called Christians. But there are people that disagree with both.

I was hoping you would see that as it was meant and understanding is not exclusive to Baha'i.

One veil is Names, but is one of an unlimited number of veils.

We all have veils, Names is one that a Baha'i has thrown aside, but what other veils cover the face of a Lover of all Names? I can assure you there are many and that is life, we will always be removing veils.

"The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the near ones".

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

But there are people that disagree with both.

That would be me, and a few more.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think fundamentalist varies in degrees. A former colleague of mine is a member of a fundamentalist church but never ever preached at me, or said anything demeaning about other faiths. She was a shining example to humanity. But then other colleagues of similar faith couldn't wait for a chance to take a pot shot like telling me 'the truth hurts' or some other nonsense. We have a range of fundamentalism in the Baha'is here. That's normal, for any group.

Because they are taught that Christianity is the only truth and to spread the word with boldness, the worst of them come off as arrogant and close minded. Baha'is can be susceptible to the same thing. But neither Christians or Baha'is are supposed to preach their truth without love and respect. But there is always that underlying feeling that they think they are right and the other person is wrong.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If any person (any person) wanted to believe in any god, they would need to understand what and/or who a god is first.

This can be better fathomed by looking back to ancient indigenous belief, belief that God saw fit for them to hold, they are the greatest foundation to expand knowledge of our spiritual being. Our connection to land, all creatures, ansestors and creative spirit as a custodian of the continued story of life.

God is found in all Creation. God is our longings for all good, our aim to be better, our inspirations for progress, our motivation to Love. What we can understand about God is summed up in Virtues.

All else, is our attachment to this creation.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

That's debatable. On one of the ex-Bahai discussion boards I visit to get the other POV, Baha'is show up proselytizing, calling the ex-Bahai's liars, living in darkness, and a slate of other rude comments. The mods let it stand because they want to let people see how foolish that is.

The hateful comments there come from Baha'i, not ex-Baha'i, at least 90% of the time.

Anybody with any decency would just let the folks go, recognizing it was a tough decision, and that people have the right to freedom of religion. They don't even seem to have an inkling of how stupid they look.

That's an important observation. Since they keep saying "by their fruits you will know them". And that's some rotten fruit.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is not a bad thing nor is it negative.

The Buddha taught: It is all about ourselves (man) not a higher power (No Brahma)

He taught we are in control: We control our mind and how we perceive the world. (Not heart first, mind first)

He taught (In Mahayana view) that all sentient beings-you, me, The Buddha, everyone has the potential to be Buddhas (enlightened). There is no higher/lower. Even the gods are in samsara.

That's what I believe. These are beliefs rather than statements of fact.

I see in this, the Message of all the Great Beings and thus that is why I see Buddha is saying the same thing.

Yes Mind is the Power. It is our use of Mind that has the potential to connect to what was the Buddha.

Now this is where we have to determine what was the original Message of Buddha, as each Mesage is given to the capacity of the age it is given. So within the original Words spoken from Buddha is all that was offered by all the Great Beings.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Edit I tried to make my comments all one post with the questions distinct.

This can be better fathomed by looking back to ancient indigenous belief, belief that God saw fit for them to hold, they are the greatest foundation to expand knowledge of our spiritual being. Our connection to land, all creatures, ansestors and creative spirit as a custodian of the continued story of life.

God is found in all Creation. God is our longings for all good, our aim to be better, our inspirations for progress, our motivation to Love. What we can understand about God is summed up in Virtues.

All else, is our attachment to this creation.

Regards Tony

You are talking about the noun but not defining it first.

If you can't explain what Great/Higher/Most are, that I'm not familiar with growing up, how do you expect me to understand based on what I read, hear on t.v., or read on a thread?

If the Bab lived today, would Bahai give the same worship and attention as he would someone living back when?

Dialogue involves some forms of asking for clarification. It helps get beyond the basics.

You have to clarify your terms before you talk about it. If not, it sounds like a bunch of adjectives and pronouns but I have no idea what you're trying to describe.

What is Mind to you? and why Mind and not mind?

This can be better fathomed by looking back to ancient indigenous belief, belief that God saw fit for them to hold, they are the greatest foundation to expand knowledge of our spiritual being. Our connection to land, all creatures, ansestors and creative spirit as a custodian of the continued story of life.​

This doesn't explain what a god is just its connection with history and mythology (unproven stories).

God is found in all Creation. God is our longings for all good, our aim to be better, our inspirations for progress, our motivation to Love. What we can understand about God is summed up in Virtues.
​

This doesn't describe god. This just says where he is and how he relates to humans. It could mean a pet dog for all I know. They are cute, have compassion, and don't sin in the christian definition of the term. Some people love their pets more than human beings.

All else, is our attachment to this creation.​

You're describing god based on what's not of god. Like negatives of a Polaroid Camera.

 

[CG Didymus]

Just a question for you ...don't some, or all, also believe that they too will rise physically from the grave to ascend to heaven?

Yes they do. There's a verse that says the dead in Christ will rise first and then those that are still alive will rise to meet Jesus in the air. That's the rapture that many Christians believe in. I wonder how the Baha'is explain that verse?

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris also state that the following figures were prophets and God as Shiva/Jehovah/Allah has come upon the present personally as a teacher.

But the Brahmakumaris teach about reincarnation and Awareness which the bahai's do not. That is the minor difference I perceive between them.

I credit the Bahai religion as the most progressive Abrahamic religion in terms of promoting world peace and harmony, without any hypocrisy in this regard.

Thanks for your post and I'm pleased you identify reincarnation as a minor difference rather than making it bigger than it needs to be. The most important aspect of faith IMHO is that enables us to become better people.

I'm aware the Brahmakumaris in my home town through their involvement in the interfaith movement and their promotion of meditation. There seems to be some controversy as to whether it sits inside or outside Hinduism. What do you think?

Do you see Shiva, Jehovah, and Allah as being actual people like Buddha, Krishna, or Christ?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Mormons use the term proselytize to mean nothing more than "teach the gospel." Of course there are always exceptions, but the vast, vast, vast majority of Mormon missionaries are guilty of none of the six behaviors mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Pretty much anyone who has engaged in conversation with them can attest to that.

I must say that the Mormon missionaries that I have had the pleasure of meeting in the door to door work have been courteous, respectful, and well organised in the presentation of your Faith. Further they are clean, do not smoke, or consume alcohol so those are excellent attributes too. I'm too hooked on coffee and tea to be giving it up in a hurry, but suspect I would be a better person and more healthy if I did.

I have no problem with the Mormons door to door teaching and I agree that you do not proselytize according to those six criteria. At an interfaith meeting earlier in the month I talked to a Mormon woman who had learned about your faith through the missionaries.

Good to hear from you.

 

[CG Didymus]

This can be better fathomed by looking back to ancient indigenous belief, belief that God saw fit for them to hold, they are the greatest foundation to expand knowledge of our spiritual being. Our connection to land, all creatures, ansestors and creative spirit as a custodian of the continued story of life.

God is found in all Creation. God is our longings for all good, our aim to be better, our inspirations for progress, our motivation to Love. What we can understand about God is summed up in Virtues.

All else, is our attachment to this creation.

Regards Tony

Christians use Adam's disobedience as the reason why God cursed the world. Plus, they have Satan doing his dirty work. But how do Baha'is explain all the negative things in nature, like viruses and harmful bacteria?

 

[CG Didymus]

I see in this, the Message of all the Great Beings and thus that is why I see Buddha is saying the same thing.

Yes Mind is the Power. It is our use of Mind that has the potential to connect to what was the Buddha.

Now this is where we have to determine what was the original Message of Buddha, as each Mesage is given to the capacity of the age it is given. So within the original Words spoken from Buddha is all that was offered by all the Great Beings.

Regards Tony

By claiming this nonexistent thing called "the original" teachings, Baha'is can negate any belief they don't agree with. Which is an essential part of being able to claim that all religions agree. That and making other things symbolic.

 

[Vinayaka]

Because they are taught that Christianity is the only truth and to spread the word with boldness, the worst of them come off as arrogant and close minded. Baha'is can be susceptible to the same thing. But neither Christians or Baha'is are supposed to preach their truth without love and respect. But there is always that underlying feeling that they think they are right and the other person is wrong.

You can see it in body language. I think 'smug' fits. It's annoying. I've never encountered a fundamentalist Muslim. Generally there is a language barrier. The only one I got to know well was a Moroccan kid, and he was quite nice. Not smart, but nice. My brother is very close to being a fundamentalist atheist. He's right all the time. He's never asked my about my faith, but he knows more than me. (sigh).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"Higher"??

Higher or Wisdom given of the Great Beings.

There is a good talk on this, I will give you my thoughts and not the story.

The talk says is that we can not imagine the Most Great. It shows no matter how much great we imagine, we can always add to it, thus no matter how great we have imagined, we soon find it was nothing compared to what we now have imagined.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I must say that the Mormon missionaries that I have had the pleasure of meeting in the door to door work have been courteous, respectful, and well organised in the presentation of your Faith. Further they are clean, do not smoke, or consume alcohol so those are excellent attributes too. I'm too hooked on coffee and tea to be giving it up in a hurry, but suspect I would be a better person and more healthy if I did.

I have no problem with the Mormons door to door teaching and I agree that you do not proselytize according to those six criteria. At an interfaith meeting earlier in the month I talked to a Mormon woman who had learned about your faith through the missionaries.

Good to hear from you.

Yes, but what do you believe about the Book of Mormon? Is it another testament about Jesus Christ?

 

[Vinayaka]

That's an important observation. Since they keep saying "by their fruits you will know them". And that's some rotten fruit.

Hopefully it's reasonably scarce, but you never know. At least they're up front, and not sneaky, pretending to be all lovey-dovey, and then backbite with fellow Bahai's. Sneaky hate is far worse than direct hate. Look at white supremists for example. I'd rather have them out protesting than sneakily plotting something far worse.