How are these Great Beings explained?

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, that's how I read it too. Infallibility being the main thing that makes it fundamentalist, in my view. Fundamentalist does have a pejorative connotation, but I've listened, read, discussed. Not all 4 of the Baha'is here, but some truly remind me of 'discussions' (they're not really discussions at at all, just preaching) I've had with fundamentalist Christians. So although you may beg to differ, I will still use proselytizing, and fundamentalist in describing Baha'i. I also feel totally free to use 'infallibility' to describe a Baha'i belief. Like I said before, one side in a discussion does not get to determine the vocabulary. Of course you're free to avoid these terms.

I'm careful in my use of the word fundamentalist. I would apply it to some faith adherents of some religions and how they view their religion and the religions of others. I would never say that Christianity or Islam are fundamentalist religions but some of their adherents most definitely. In fact if I were to call Christianity fundamentalist, then I would be exhibiting fundamentalist behaviour in needlessly assigning a derogatory term to an entire religion and to some degree all their adherents would be guilty by association. So fundamentalism behaviour as well as clinging dogmatically to particular beliefs and can involve using distortions of language and the beliefs of others to denigrate and dismiss their faiths. As I realise we can all be fundamentalist in our approach to belief, whether Abrahamic, Dharmic, or atheistic, that realisation is empowering. It means I can recognise within my self attitudes and behaviours that are fundamentalist in nature. If I imagine that I am free from such tendencies, then I have simply become a captive of my ego and passions.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes they do. There's a verse that says the dead in Christ will rise first and then those that are still alive will rise to meet Jesus in the air. That's the rapture that many Christians believe in. I wonder how the Baha'is explain that verse?

That's what I though. Wow, is all can I say. Do you know if it's the old tired half-dead body, or is it the body in its prime of health?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, but what do you believe about the Book of Mormon? Is it another testament about Jesus Christ?

The book of Mormon is clearly influenced by the King James Bible, so yes.

Do I agree with all aspects of the Mormon faith? No.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm careful in my use of the word fundamentalist. I would apply it to some faith adherents of some religions and how they view their religion and the religions of others. I would never say that Christianity or Islam are fundamentalist religions but some of their adherents most definitely. In fact if I were to call Christianity fundamentalist, then I would be exhibiting fundamentalist behaviour in needlessly assigning a derogatory term to an entire religion and to some degree all their adherents would be guilty by association. So fundamentalism behaviour as well as clinging dogmatically to particular beliefs and can involve using distortions of language and the beliefs of others to denigrate and dismiss their faiths. As I realise we can all be fundamentalist in our approach to belief, whether Abrahamic, Dharmic, or atheistic, that realisation is empowering. It means I can recognise within my self attitudes and behaviours that are fundamentalist in nature. If I imagine that I am free from such tendencies, then I have simply become a captive of my ego and passions.

I agree. It's an individual matter, but still, some religions are more prone to it than others. And of course in religions with many sects like Christianity, and Hinduism, there are some sects really prone to it.

 

[CG Didymus]

You can see it in body language. I think 'smug' fits. It's annoying. I've never encountered a fundamentalist Muslim. Generally there is a language barrier. The only one I got to know well was a Moroccan kid, and he was quite nice. Not smart, but nice. My brother is very close to being a fundamentalist atheist. He's right all the time. He's never asked my about my faith, but he knows more than me. (sigh).

If you ever want to be annoyed by extreme Christian proselytizing than watch an episode of "The Way of the Master".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Source???

I remember asking to define god and one of Bahai said it was an essence. The website said something like that.

I don't understand that term so it's pronouns and adjectives: source, higher, greater, etc go over my head. You need to define the noun before you talk about it

The Source of knowledge for us is the Great beings. God being the giver of that Source.

We can see it as the Sun in the perfect mirror of His Messenger from our position in darkness. If we look towards the face of that mirror we see the Sun, if we polish ghe dross from the mirror of our heart then we too reflect the Sun.

The difference is we have dirt on our mirrors, the Great Beings are the perfect clean Mirror.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Because they are taught that Christianity is the only truth and to spread the word with boldness, the worst of them come off as arrogant and close minded. Baha'is can be susceptible to the same thing. But neither Christians or Baha'is are supposed to preach their truth without love and respect. But there is always that underlying feeling that they think they are right and the other person is wrong.

Now we see the importance of the Unity of Mind to unlock our potential.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

If you ever want to be annoyed by extreme Christian proselytizing than watch an episode of "The Way of the Master".

I do watch fundamentalist preachers sometimes. It's funny, and a study of dogmatism, for much the same reason I am in this discussion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Now we see the importance of the Unity of Mind to unlock our potential.

There is no such thing, in my view. Wishful thinking, maybe.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Source of knowledge for us is the Great beings. God being the giver of that Source.

We can see it as the Sun in the perfect mirror of His Messenger from our position in darkness. If we look towards the face of that mirror we see the Sun, if we polish ghe dross from the mirror of our heart then we too reflect the Sun.

The difference is we have dirt on our mirrors, the Great Beings are the perfect clean Mirror.

Reiteration of Baha'i beliefs. We know, already.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's an important observation. Since they keep saying "by their fruits you will know them". And that's some rotten fruit.

If you look at those quotes in context, it is about the Prophets and Messengers of God. Not about the followers, though it is further applicable to them in a different meaning.

So we know Christ by His Person, fruits and Prophecy and this is How we are asked by Christ to vone to know about Baha'u'llah. This is applicable to all the Great Beings.

We know a true Christian and Baha'i by the fruits of the Faith they live. We do not judge Christ by a Christain nor Baha'u'llah by a Baha'i.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

This can be better fathomed by looking back to ancient indigenous belief, belief that God saw fit for them to hold, they are the greatest foundation to expand knowledge of our spiritual being.

There were 500 separate indigenous people in North America, 200 plus in Australia, over 1000 in Africa, another 500 in SA. They were a diverse lot, and we'll never know what each group thought about stuff. To lump them together as one is a vast and illogical oversimplification. They were probably more diverse that what we see on this planet today.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

By claiming this nonexistent thing called "the original" teachings, Baha'is can negate any belief they don't agree with. Which is an essential part of being able to claim that all religions agree. That and making other things symbolic.

It is not our Message, as I said above, one must get to Know the Great Beings by their own selves and their life and Message.

Reagrds Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If you ever want to be annoyed by extreme Christian proselytizing than watch an episode of "The Way of the Master".

Why do this to yourself. Look for the good in all things.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's debatable. On one of the ex-Bahai discussion boards I visit to get the other POV, Baha'is show up proselytizing, calling the ex-Bahai's liars, living in darkness, and a slate of other rude comments. The mods let it stand because they want to let people see how foolish that is.

The hateful comments there come from Baha'i, not ex-Baha'i, at least 90% of the time.

Anybody with any decency would just let the folks go, recognizing it was a tough decision, and that people have the right to freedom of religion. They don't even seem to have an inkling of how stupid they look.

I have not seen this group so if you provide me a link I will happily look at it and consider.

The Baha'i writings emphasise love, compassion and peace so clearly the attitudes you describe towards one who leaves the Baha'i Faith do not reflect the Baha'i writings. As previously mentioned I am friends with two ex-Baha'is.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is no such thing, in my view. Wishful thinking, maybe.

I one way I see mind like the universe.

Each one of us a celestial body circling the suns, all a part of the whole.

With unity of mind we balance the universe, if one mind departs from the structure it sets in motion disruption to the balance, with many minds departing from the process, a great disruption is made and a greater correction required.

Thus I see minds that use violent in and immorality in life and as entertainment, all feeding minds, trapped in this world of self, and feeding the disruption.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There were 500 separate indigenous people in North America, 200 plus in Australia, over 1000 in Africa, another 500 in SA. They were a diverse lot, and we'll never know what each group thought about stuff. To lump them together as one is a vast and illogical oversimplification. They were probably more diverse that what we see on this planet today.

Have you read any of what they beleive?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There were 500 separate indigenous people in North America, 200 plus in Australia, over 1000 in Africa, another 500 in SA. They were a diverse lot, and we'll never know what each group thought about stuff. To lump them together as one is a vast and illogical oversimplification. They were probably more diverse that what we see on this planet today.

More flowers in the garden of mankind. Wonderful.

Having a little experience living in various Aboriginal Communities and on some Pacific Islands, I have found the foundations of their stories very complimentary.

Regards Tony

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Source of knowledge for us is the Great beings. God being the giver of that Source.

We can see it as the Sun in the perfect mirror of His Messenger from our position in darkness. If we look towards the face of that mirror we see the Sun, if we polish ghe dross from the mirror of our heart then we too reflect the Sun.

The difference is we have dirt on our mirrors, the Great Beings are the perfect clean Mirror.

Regards Tony

It just dawned on me why I dont get your analogies. The Source, Giver, Maker, Great, etc are adjectives. They describe something not define the nature of it. The nature of the sun is a ball of gas. The adjectives that describe it is hot and yellow. Its relation to others is it helps with the warm seasons when the earth is closer to the sun.

As an analogy for god, it does not work. You need to define the nature of god (ball of gas??) and Then describe the mirror, the reflection, the rays, and reflection.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Reiteration of Baha'i beliefs. We know, already.

What is it to know? Does understanding come before knowledge?

Regards Tony