How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

The idea of 1000 years (millennium) is nowhere to be found in those passages.

The Messiah establishing the kingdom is talked about. The other details aren't mentioned because progressive revelation is a concept that exists in the Tanakh.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The Messiah establishing the kingdom is talked about. The other details aren't mentioned because progressive revelation is a concept that exists in the Tanakh.

So what we've established is that two of the three passages from the Tanakh you've mentioned are related to the messianic kingdom.

None of this has anything to do with Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

So what we've established is that two of the three passages from the Tanakh you've mentioned are related to the messianic kingdom.

None of this has anything to do with Jesus.

The prophecies of peace on earth will be fulfilled when Christ returns. The Old Testament doesn't explicitly mention the second coming of the Messiah but it's underlined and consistent with the belief in the Messiah and it resolves some apparently contradictory teachings about the Messiah that are in the Old Testament.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The prophecies of peace on earth will be fulfilled when Christ returns.

A meaningless statement.

The Old Testament doesn't explicitly mention the second coming of the Messiah

The biggest indication that the Messiah won't come twice.

but it's underlined and consistent with the belief in the Messiah

Nope.

and it resolves some apparently contradictory teachings about the Messiah that are in the Old Testament.

Nope. Having a better handle on what is and isn't a messianic prophecy clears up most of those apparent contradictions right away.

 

[Skywalker]

A meaningless statement. The biggest indication that the Messiah won't come twice. Nope. Nope. Having a better handle on what is and isn't a messianic prophecy clears up most of those apparent contradictions right away.

The concept of progressive revelation is in the Old Testament. What is progressive revelation as it relates to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

Progressive Revelation - More Evidence from Scripture
A quick search of Scripture reveals the following verses in both the Old and New Testaments that support the fact that faith in God has always been the avenue of salvation:

• “Then [Abraham] believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness” (Genesis 15:6)

• “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered” (Joel 2:32)

• “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4).

• “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval” (Hebrews 11:1-2).

• And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him” (Hebrews 11:6).

Scripture plainly states that faith is the key to salvation for all people down through history, but how could God save people without their knowing of Christ’s sacrifice for them? The answer is that God saved them based on their response to the knowledge that they did have. Their faith looked forward to something that they could not see, whereas today, believers look back on events that they can see.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The concept of progressive revelation is in the Old Testament.

If feel like if you really believed that, you'd be a Muslim. Or a Mormon. Or a combination thereof.

"progressive revelation" is Christianity's way of cleaning up the mess that is described by the fact that you make claims about the Tanakh saying certain things, and then when it's pointed out that it doesn't actually say that, you turn it back to the Christian scripture.

The bottom line is, the only way for Christians to consider Jesus to be the Messiah is to fabricate and distort concepts about what makes the messiah the messiah. That's what makes it so easy for Jews to reject Jesus as the messiah. Because we know more about what to expect, and he didn't fit the description, no matter how desperately you try to manipulate the text.

 

[Skywalker]

If feel like if you really believed that, you'd be a Muslim. Or a Mormon. Or a combination thereof.

"progressive revelation" is Christianity's way of cleaning up the mess that is described by the fact that you make claims about the Tanakh saying certain things, and then when it's pointed out that it doesn't actually say that, you turn it back to the Christian scripture.

The bottom line is, the only way for Christians to consider Jesus to be the Messiah is to fabricate and distort concepts about what makes the messiah the messiah. That's what makes it so easy for Jews to reject Jesus as the messiah. Because we know more about what to expect, and he didn't fit the description, no matter how desperately you try to manipulate the text.

That is based off of the interpretation of rabbis. Rabbis are just as fallible as pastors and priests. They are all human beings. I believe that we are to question what the clergy teach. The only one we can trust is God.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11).

 

[Poisonshady313]

That is based off of the interpretation of rabbis. Rabbis are just as fallible as pastors and priests. They are all human beings. I believe that we are to question what the clergy teach. The only one we can trust is God.

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:11).

If you think you're helping your point... you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Skywalker]

If you think you're helping your point... you are sadly mistaken.

The belief that the Tanakh doesn't teach certain things is based off an interpretation of the scriptures just like the Christian beliefs are. We are to search the Scriptures to see what they say, not blindly trust what pastors and priests and rabbis teach.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The belief that the Tanakh doesn't teach certain things is based off an interpretation of the scriptures just like the Christian beliefs are. We are to search the Scriptures to see what they say, not blindly trust what pastors and priests and rabbis teach.

As nice as that sounds, it also gives you the freedom to start making things up and claiming "that's what the text meant all along".

Search the scripture. See what they say. They don't say anything about Jesus.

Keep in mind that as a Jew, the text you call the "new testament" is not considered scripture.

Which means any claim that a figure is the Messiah that the Jews have been waiting for must be supported by the Jewish scripture, otherwise you're wasting you're time.

 

[Skywalker]

If feel like if you really believed that, you'd be a Muslim. Or a Mormon. Or a combination thereof.

"progressive revelation" is Christianity's way of cleaning up the mess that is described by the fact that you make claims about the Tanakh saying certain things, and then when it's pointed out that it doesn't actually say that, you turn it back to the Christian scripture.

The bottom line is, the only way for Christians to consider Jesus to be the Messiah is to fabricate and distort concepts about what makes the messiah the messiah. That's what makes it so easy for Jews to reject Jesus as the messiah. Because we know more about what to expect, and he didn't fit the description, no matter how desperately you try to manipulate the text.

Progressive revelation is in the scriptures. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

The Old Testament clearly teaches that the Messiah would come, but it does not explicitly say that He would come twice. The information God revealed about the Messiah started very basic, with more detail added bit by bit. People living in later times knew more than those who lived earlier. Abraham knew more about the purposes of God than did Noah. David knew more than Abraham. The prophets knew more than David. And finally, the apostles in the New Testament knew more than the prophets. The apostles after the resurrection knew more than they did before the resurrection.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Progressive revelation is in the scriptures. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

If you're going to just repeat yourself, then so will I.

Keep in mind that as a Jew, the text you call the "new testament" is not considered scripture.

 

[Skywalker]

As nice as that sounds, it also gives you the freedom to start making things up and claiming "that's what the text meant all along".

Search the scripture. See what they say. They don't say anything about Jesus.

Keep in mind that as a Jew, the text you call the "new testament" is not considered scripture.

Which means any claim that a figure is the Messiah that the Jews have been waiting for must be supported by the Jewish scripture, otherwise you're wasting you're time.

The Old and New Testament differences may be difficult to understand, but they are one testament.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The Old and New Testament differences may be difficult to understand, but they are one testament.

Let me ask you 2 questions. Yes or no answers.

Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?
Is it the next step in God's progressive revelation?

 

[Skywalker]

Let me ask you 2 questions. Yes or no answers.

Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?
Is it the next step in God's progressive revelation?

The Quran rejects the Messiah. It teaches that Christ was just a prophet. Jesus has the threefold ministry of prophet, priest, and king but he is first and foremost a Creator and Savior not a prophet.

 

[Poisonshady313]

The Quran rejects the Messiah. It teaches that Christ was just a prophet. Jesus has the threefold ministry of prophet, priest, and king but he is first and foremost a Creator and Savior not a prophet.

You didn't answer my question.

And technically, the Quran does consider Jesus to be the Messiah.

But please give me a simple answer: Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?

 

[Skywalker]

You didn't answer my question.

And technically, the Quran does consider Jesus to be the Messiah.

But please give me a simple answer: Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?

The Ebionites believed that Jesus is the Messiah but not God. Even though they believed that Jesus is the Messiah they still rejected him.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Some of the Jewish Christian sect believed that Jesus is the Messiah but not God. Even though they believed that Jesus is the Messiah they still rejected him.

Please give me a simple answer: Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?

 

[Skywalker]

Please give me a simple answer: Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God as dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel?

No. I believe that Mohammed borrowed his ideas from the Bible, Zoroastrianism, and Arabian folklore.

 

[Yahcubs777]

The idea of eating flesh and drinking blood for eternal life did not come from Judaism. Cannabalism was practiced in Egypt. One of the purposes was: "a way of guiding the souls of the dead into the bodies of living descendants." ( Human cannibalism )

Compare that to John 14:19-20.

It's a recipe for eternal life. The Book of John perscribes "Eat my flesh and blood ( literally or figuratively ) for eternal life. You will live, I will be in you and you in me..."

It's an occult practice.

Yes, but that is not what HE was telling the people to do. HE is the Word (John 1:1). So HE was revealing to them, that HIS Word needs to be eaten. HE said: Except ye eat the substance containing my Genetic information, drink in assimilate my Gene, ye have no everlasting life in your body. HE had just finished feeding them with loaves of bread and fish showing that HE is the GOD that fed their fathers in the wilderness, fulfilling psalms 23, and the people ate their fill. Then when the message came, when HE revealed HIS Gospel of Everlasting life, the people that just ate left as HE was preaching. HE said, my Word is what you must eat. Compare:

IF a man keep my saying he shall never see death John 8:51
Your fathers ate manna and are dead. I am the bread of life that cometh down from heaven. He that eats of this bread shall never die but live forever.
Why was John the Beloved rumoured to live forever?
8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

The Apostles got the message wrong my brother. They were tested and proved when they were offered the same deal as Matt 4:4-7 but they took the deal instead. That is what the denials of Peter was pointing to; the denials ofthe church; not just peter; he represents the church. And its why Jesus His Pre-Eminence said 3 times: Lovest thou me, feed my sheep.

So HE wasn't telling the people to eat HIM, HE was telling them that HIS Word which is Living and active; Spiritual and life giving; Spiritual meaning containing spiritually genetic properties and contents; life giving meaning Zoe hatching. Zoe cells was called the must add seed (mustard) the incorruptible seed, that must fill the physical body to transfigure that body in life. This is why i have started showing things in Genesis because Man cannot know where he is going without knowing where he came from.

However, the Jews are right. The Christians are very wrong. HE is not the Son of GOD, Adam is the Son of GOD. And the Son of Man is Eliljah. Thats why they could not be fooled by the nonsense of the epistles. They have their scrolls and had Prophets sent to them.