How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Harel13]

I'm talking about readings in the synagagues. They go straight from Isaiah 52 to Isaiah 54.

Readings of the prophets in synagogue doesn't go by chapter order. Here, I'll give yo an example:

In Shabbat Ekev we read from Isaiah 49:14 to Isaiah 51:3.
In Shabbat Re'eh we read from isaiah 54:11 to Isaiah 55:5.
In Shabbat Shoftim we read from Isaiah 51:12 to 52:12.
In Shabbat Ki Tetzeh we read from Isaiah 54:1 to 54:9.
In Shabbat Ki Tavoh we read from Isaiah 60:1 to Isaiah 60:22.

Skipping a bit forward, in Shabbat Ha'azinu we read from Samuel 2:22:1 to Samuel 2:22:51.
In Simchat Torah, when we read V'zot Habracha, we read from Joshua 1:1 to Joshua 1:18.

Notice the odd jumps.

That's because the prophet readings in synagogue are based on subject matter. The Isaiah jumps refer to skipping over sad portions because that's during a time of year dedicated to comfort after the fast of the 9th of Av.

 

[Skywalker]

Check the Hebrew. The term is אבי-עד Avi-Ad, which means "my father is everlasting", not "everlasting father".

Why would the Messiah be called my father is everlasting?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

 

[Rival]

I believe that a lot of the things that people spend money on are vanity.

Yes but you're not answering my question, as usual.

You own stuff?

If so, you should be holding all things in common and giving to the poor.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes but you're not answering my question, as usual.

You own stuff?

If so, you should be holding all things in common and giving to the poor.

Many followers of Jesus in the Bible didn't give everything they had to the poor. Christians and Material Wealth: The Question of Giving Everything Away - Focus on the Family

What did Jesus mean when He said, "Go, sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven"? I became a Christian about a year and a half ago, and for the most part I've been very happy in my new-found faith. Sure, I've had my ups and downs, but the Lord has changed my life dramatically and blessed me in many ways. But when I met a man who showed me that Bible verse, it filled me with confusion and doubt. Do I have to give up my home and live on the streets in order to follow Jesus?


These words were spoken to a particular individual within the context of a particular situation. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that they were addressed to the church as a whole. Apparently your acquaintance is under the impression that the validity of every Christian’s faith stands or falls on his or her ability to comply with the words of Jesus to the rich young ruler: “Go, sell whatever you possess, and give to the poor” (Mark 10:21). We don’t think this is fair.

That’s not to mention that believers have been struggling to understand this saying and apply it to their lives in a practical way for a long, long time – ever since the days of the apostles. Some, like St. Anthony, the Desert Fathers, and Francis of Assisi, have made heroic attempts – with varying degrees of success – to follow it to the letter. Others, recognizing the practical difficulties associated with such a plan, have concluded that Christ was not demanding the literal rejection of all material wealth, but was simply trying to get the young man to see where the loyalties and affections of his heart really lay. The point is that there have been lots of good Christians on both sides of the issue. Your friend doesn’t seem to be aware of this.

Meanwhile, we know for a fact that there were many solid, faithful believers in the first-century who did not sell all their possessions when they became followers of Jesus. Joseph of Arimathea, for instance, was apparently a man of great substance (Matthew 27:57), and Paul and James seem to take it for granted that there is room for both rich and poor in the church of Jesus Christ (see I Timothy 6:17-19; James 1:11).

 

[Rival]

Many followers of Jesus in the Bible didn't give everything they had to the poor. Christians and Material Wealth: The Question of Giving Everything Away - Focus on the Family

Acts 2:44-47
Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favour with all the people.

 

[Skywalker]

Acts 2:44-47
Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favour with all the people.

That's not possible for everyone to do.

 

[Rival]

That's not possible for everyone to do.

No it's not, but there are groups out there like this. You could join one.

 

[Skywalker]

No it's not, but there are groups out there like this. You could join one.

Following the teachings of Jesus are not convenient for our human nature. Jesus said to take up your cross and follow him. Matthew 16:24-26

 

[Rival]

Following the teachings of Jesus are not convenient for our human nature. Jesus said to take up your cross and follow him.

So you're not about to join the Amish, Quakers, or other groups because it's not convenient for you?

 

[Skywalker]

So you're not about to join the Amish, Quakers, or other groups because it's not convenient for you?

I don't believe in committing myself to any one church or denomination. I believe in going to church to hear the word of God.

 

[metis]

The word Messiah/Mashiach means anointed. Being anointed authorizes an individual for a certain position of authority. Kings, prophets, and priests were anointed. THE messiah is anointed as King.

A savior is something altogether different. You can save someone from drowning. God was our savior when he delivered us from Egypt.

Yep, that's what I posted but didn't get believed even though I provided links that included the Hebrew.

BTW, may you & yours have a most blessed Pesach.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Isaiah 53 is not read in synagagues anymore after people started discussing if the verse refers to the Messiah. How Do Orthodox Jews Read Isaiah 53? - BJU Seminary

There are many passages from the prophets that are not read regularly. The question you should be asking is not why aren't Jews reading Isaiah 53, but how do Jews choose the passages we DO read??

Basically, we are focused on the Torah portion that we read each week. The reading from the prophet that is chosen is simply chosen to compliment that Torah portion. Simply put, Isaiah 53 just didn't match up well to any section of the Torah as well as other passages from the Prophets.

Here is a Jewish website on Isaiah 53
Isaiah 53 | Outreach Judaism

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yep, that's what I posted but didn't get believed even though I provided links that included the Hebrew.

BTW, may you & yours have a most blessed Pesach.

Oh you are so sweet. Thankyou.

And I know that this Sunday begins Holy Week for you. Maybe you find richness and meaning.

 

[Skywalker]

There are many passages from the prophets that are not read regularly. The question you should be asking is not why aren't Jews reading Isaiah 53, but how do Jews choose the passages we DO read??

Basically, we are focused on the Torah portion that we read each week. The reading from the prophet that is chosen is simply chosen to compliment that Torah portion. Simply put, Isaiah 53 just didn't match up well to any section of the Torah as well as other passages from the Prophets.

Here is a Jewish website on Isaiah 53
Isaiah 53 | Outreach Judaism

I believe that there are hints within Judaism that Jesus is the Messiah. the Jewish Sages of ancient times always interpreted Isaiah 53 to be about the Messiah. I don't agree with something just because a pastor or a scholar says something but truth and lies are mixed.

 

[metis]

Oh you are so sweet. Thankyou.

And I know that this Sunday begins Holy Week for you. Maybe you find richness and meaning.

And thank you as well.

BTW, tomorrow evening we celebrate Pesach at our daughter's house, as she is in Reform Judaism. Ya, we break all da rules.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And thank you as well.

BTW, tomorrow evening we celebrate Pesach at our daughter's house, as she is in Reform Judaism. Ya, we break all da rules.

Enjoy.

 

[Trailblazer]

the Jewish Sages of ancient times always interpreted Isaiah 53 to be about the Messiah.

Interesting... I believe Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah, but it is not about Jesus.

Certainly, Isaiah 53:4 and Isaiah 53:5 could apply to Jesus. However, Isaiah 53:8, Isaiah 53:9, and Isaiah 53:10 cannot apply to Jesus because Jesus was not taken from prison and from judgment, Jesus did not make His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Jesus made his soul an offering for sin, but He did not see his seed and His days were not prolonged, so there is no way Isaiah 53:10 can be about Jesus, and that is why we know it is about someone else who would be the Messiah of the last days.

 

[Skywalker]

Interesting... I believe Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah, but it is not about Jesus.

Certainly, Isaiah 53:4 and Isaiah 53:5 could apply to Jesus. However, Isaiah 53:8, Isaiah 53:9, and Isaiah 53:10 cannot apply to Jesus because Jesus was not taken from prison and from judgment, Jesus did not make His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death. Jesus made his soul an offering for sin, but He did not see his seed and His days were not prolonged, so there is no way Isaiah 53:10 can be about Jesus, and that is why we know it is about someone else who would be the Messiah of the last days.

How can the Messiah not be God? Jesus was crucified with two thieves. Jesus' days were prolonged when he resurrected.

 

[Trailblazer]

How can the Messiah not be God? Jesus was crucified with two thieves. Jesus' days were prolonged when he resurrected.

The Messiah is not God because God never appears on earth. The Messiah is a man who has a twofold nature, human and spiritual.

Jesus' days were not prolonged because the physical body of Jesus did not come back to life. Rather, the physical body of Jesus died and then His soul left His body and took on a different form, a spiritual body. The same thing happens to everyone who dies. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. What that means is that our soul will leave our body and God will give us a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

Read full chapter

 

[Skywalker]

The Messiah is not God because God never appears on earth. The Messiah is a man who has a twofold nature, human and spiritual.

Jesus' days were not prolonged because the physical body of Jesus did not come back to life. Rather, the physical body of Jesus died and then His soul left His body and took on a different form, a spiritual body. The same thing happens to everyone who dies. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. What that means is that our soul will leave our body and God will give us a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

Read full chapter

Zechariah 14:4 refers to Yahweh standing on the mount of olives.

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.