How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Rival]

That's just an interpretation of the Bible it's not what the Bible says. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

Can we not.

 

[Skywalker]

Times like this, I wish I could give more than one "winner" frube.

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah would only have one coming. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

The Old Testament had several mysteries regarding the Messiah: would He be a divine figure or a human descendant of David? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Incarnation. Would the Messiah be cut off or reign forever? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Resurrection. Would the Messiah come to suffer or to reign? The New Testament once again gives the answer—both, because He would come twice.

The idea that the Messiah would come once to suffer and again to reign is not clearly taught in the Old Testament, although the doctrine is completely consistent with Old Testament teaching. Further, the second coming resolves some of the apparently contradictory teachings about the Messiah in the Old Testament.

 

[Rival]

Times like this, I wish I could give more than one "winner" frube.

I'm in a rockin' good mood today and I'm not gonna ruin it by debating this again.

 

[Skywalker]

Can we not.

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah would only come once. The dominant expectation of who the Messiah was just an opinion. An opinion is a feeling, or a whatever. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

By the time of Jesus, the dominant expectation was for a Messiah who would rescue Israel from foreign domination. He would conquer and rule. At every turn, Jesus defied these expectations. He claimed that His kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36). He told His disciples that He was going to Jerusalem to die, and this caused Peter to rebuke Him (Matthew 16:21–23). He told them that He would be raised from the dead, but Mark 9:10 reports that “they kept the matter to themselves, discussing what ‘rising from the dead’ meant.” A little later, when He told them a second time of His death and resurrection, “they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it” (verse 32).

 

[Rival]

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah would only come once. The dominant expectation of who the Messiah was just an opinion. An opinion is a feeling, or a whatever. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Trailblazer]

Give him time. I think he will come through.

Not if you are referring to Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and He never said he was coming to rule.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

 

[Harel13]

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah would only have one coming. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother going one by one with everything that's wrong about that article, because I've already debated all of those points with you and others on this site several times over. Just note that the article equally says that the bible also doesn't explicitly say that the Messiah would come twice.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Old Testament never says that the Messiah would only come once. The dominant expectation of who the Messiah was just an opinion. An opinion is a feeling, or a whatever. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

"It was only after the resurrection that the disciples began to understand what Jesus had been telling them (John 2:22). Even after the resurrection they did not understand about the second coming because they asked Him if now was the time that He would restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6). Jesus told them that they should not be concerned about the timing of the coming kingdom, but they should take the gospel to the whole world (Acts 1:8). Then He was taken up from them into heaven, and two angels came to them and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). Here we finally have a clear indication that there will be a second coming after an undisclosed time period."

It was only after Christians started to believe in the bodily resurrection that things went south because that led to the belief that Jesus ascended to heaven in the same body and that He would return in the same body. Because of Acts 1:9-11 we know there will be a second coming of Christ, but the verse does not say that the angels saw a body go up; so it was not a body that would return, it was the Christ spirit that would return in another body that would be sent from Heaven but born on earth.​

"The Old Testament had several mysteries regarding the Messiah: would He be a divine figure or a human descendant of David? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Incarnation. Would the Messiah be cut off or reign forever? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Resurrection. Would the Messiah come to suffer or to reign? The New Testament once again gives the answer—both, because He would come twice.

The idea that the Messiah would come once to suffer and again to reign is not clearly taught in the Old Testament, although the doctrine is completely consistent with Old Testament teaching. Further, the second coming resolves some of the apparently contradictory teachings about the Messiah in the Old Testament."

Yes, that was clearly taught that there would be two comings of the Messiah. Jesus was the Messiah who would suffer, but He was not the Messiah who would reign, and that is why the Jews did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Christians try to make this work by saying Jesus will return and finish what He did not do at His first coming, but they cannot make that work because Jesus never promised to return a second time and in fact Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more and that His work was finished here and that His kingdom was not of this world.

Christians cannot make this work without a rewrite of the New Testament.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)​

 

[Rival]

'Why don't Hindus believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Asatruer believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Kemetics believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Buddhists believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

These aren't threads for some reason...

For a universal religion it really has a fetishy focus on Jews not believing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

'Why don't Hindus believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Asatruer believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Kemetics believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Buddhists believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

These aren't threads for some reason...

Christians tend to take it personally that the religion that birthed their beliefs does not agree with their beliefs.

 

[Skywalker]

"It was only after the resurrection that the disciples began to understand what Jesus had been telling them (John 2:22). Even after the resurrection they did not understand about the second coming because they asked Him if now was the time that He would restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6). Jesus told them that they should not be concerned about the timing of the coming kingdom, but they should take the gospel to the whole world (Acts 1:8). Then He was taken up from them into heaven, and two angels came to them and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). Here we finally have a clear indication that there will be a second coming after an undisclosed time period."

It was only after Christians started to believe in the bodily resurrection that things went south because that led to the belief that Jesus ascended to heaven in the same body and that He would return in the same body. Because of Acts 1:9-11 we know there will be a second coming of Christ, but the verse does not say that the angels saw a body go up; so it was not a body that would return, it was the Christ spirit that would return in another body that would be sent from Heaven but born on earth.​

"The Old Testament had several mysteries regarding the Messiah: would He be a divine figure or a human descendant of David? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Incarnation. Would the Messiah be cut off or reign forever? The New Testament gives the answer—both, because of the Resurrection. Would the Messiah come to suffer or to reign? The New Testament once again gives the answer—both, because He would come twice.

The idea that the Messiah would come once to suffer and again to reign is not clearly taught in the Old Testament, although the doctrine is completely consistent with Old Testament teaching. Further, the second coming resolves some of the apparently contradictory teachings about the Messiah in the Old Testament."

Yes, that was clearly taught that there would be two comings of the Messiah. Jesus was the Messiah who would suffer, but He was not the Messiah who would reign, and that is why the Jews did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. Christians try to make this work by saying Jesus will return and finish what He did not do at His first coming, but they cannot make that work because Jesus never promised to return a second time and in fact Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more and that His work was finished here and that His kingdom was not of this world.

Christians cannot make this work without a rewrite of the New Testament.
(John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30, John 18:36, John 18:37)​

Jesus was the Messiah who will reign. There's only one Messiah-God. The bodily resurrection is mentioned in the Old Testament. Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. When Christ resurrected his body and spirit were the same. How will our resurrection body be different from our current body? | GotQuestions.org

We get a glimpse of what our resurrection bodies will be like when we recall Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances. He still had visible wounds, and His disciples could physically touch Him, yet He was able to travel effortlessly and appear and disappear at will. He could go through walls and doors yet could also eat and drink and sit and talk. Scripture informs us that our “lowly bodies” will be just “like His glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). Indeed, the physical limitations imposed by sin that hinder our ability to fully serve Him on earth will be forever gone, freeing us to praise and serve and glorify Him for eternity.

Jesus told the apostle Peter that he would return a second time. John 21:22

Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. In John 17:11 doesn't mean that Jesus won't return because it's not a verse talking about the second coming of Jesus. To understand the Bible you have to study the context of the verses. When you read the Bible over and over again, you notice things that you didn't notice before. What does John 17:11 mean?

What does John 17:11 mean?
Shortly after He completes this prayer, Jesus will cross over Kidron and enter the garden of Gethsemane (John 18:1). There, He will be arrested, beginning a process leading to His crucifixion and resurrection (John 12:32–34). As these words are spoken, His ministry "in the world" is over, and the apostles will be left to carry the gospel (John 16:5–11). That world will be hostile to their message (John 16:1–4). However, Jesus has already provided comfort by predicting the coming of the Holy Spirit (John 15:26) and His eventual victory (John 16:33).

This verse is another example of Jesus referring to the use of a "name." This is not a reference to magical spells or incantations. To speak "in the name of" someone is to invoke their authority and power. When a police officer says, "stop, in the name of the law!" the command is only as valid as "the law" to which he refers. As Jesus prays for the disciples to be "kept" in their faith by the power and authority of God, He leverages this idea of God's "name."

 

[Skywalker]

Christians tend to take it personally that the religion that birthed their beliefs does not agree with their beliefs.

Judaism came from Christianity. Judaism is the Old Testament and rabbinic tradition. The Old Testament people did not know the name of Jesus, but they were still saved by what he did for them, The Bible even says that the gospel was preached to Abraham, and Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. What Are the Differences Between Judaism and Christianity?

Borrowing from the Word of Christ
Obviously, those in Judaism have regarded much of the Bible as the truth, especially the Old Testament. Since Jesus, Immanuel, is God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23), the Old Testament is His Word. Therefore, Judaists borrow from Jesus’ Word for their religion. This helps clarify a misconception. Often, we hear that Christianity was born out of Judaism, but this is not the case. Judaism was properly born as a response to Christianity.

The Old Testament is a Christian document that points to Jesus Christ who is the ultimate author of Scripture (Luke 24:27; John 5:46). Professor of Church History Dr. Phillip Schaff rightly states that the Old Testament Jewish religion “was the true religion before Christ but not perfect, or final.”9

The New Testament, with Christ as the centerpiece, is like a blossomed flower with the Old Testament patriarchs, such as Abraham and Moses and the prophets as the stem, leaves, and roots. But where the New Testament perfected or finalized the Old Testament in God’s perfect timing, the Pharisees deviated and held man’s ideas in the oral traditions to be greater than God’s Word. Judaism is just that: a deviation from the clear teachings of the Old Testament caused by elevating the traditions of men and rejecting the New Testament of God.

In other words, Judaism was born out of an improper understanding of Christ’s religion (Old Testament) and a rejection of God’s Word in the New Testament, particularly the rejection of the Messiah, Jesus. This happened because they misunderstood the promise, which led to a misunderstanding of its fulfillment.

But since Jews and Christians have the Old Testament in common, there will be some beliefs on which they agree. In fact, Christians and Jews share many similar doctrines because they draw many of them from the same pages of Scripture.

 

[Rival]

Judaism came from Christianity.

 

[Trailblazer]

'Why don't Hindus believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Asatruer believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Kemetics believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

'Why don't Buddhists believe Jesus is the Messiah?'

These aren't threads for some reason...

For a universal religion it really has a fetishy focus on Jews not believing.

That's an easy one to answer. They don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because Jesus did not fulfill any of the messianic age prophecies. The Messiah will fulfill the prophecies of all the religions. However, it is important to note that all the prophecies will not be fulfilled (a) by the Messiah or (b) during the lifetime of the Messiah. The prophecies that are not fulfilled in his lifetime will be fulfilled sometime during the messianic age.

“In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.”

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a great teacher from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great religion restoring, world uniting, peace bringing Messiah.”

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

 

[Rival]

That's an easy one to answer. They don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah because Jesus did not fulfill any of the messianic age prophecies. The Messiah will fulfill the prophecies of all the religions. However, it is important to note that all the prophecies will not be fulfilled (a) by the Messiah or (b) during the lifetime of the Messiah. The prophecies that are not fulfilled in his lifetime will be fulfilled sometime during the messianic age.

“In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.”

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a great teacher from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great religion restoring, world uniting, peace bringing Messiah.”

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

It was a joke!!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Judaism came from Christianity. Judaism is the Old Testament and rabbinic tradition. The Old Testament people did not know the name of Jesus, but they were still saved by what he did for them, The Bible even says that the gospel was preached to Abraham, and Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. What Are the Differences Between Judaism and Christianity?

LOL!!

No, it is the other way around. Judaism is the original religion. Christianity is an offshoot. It eventually dwarfed its predecessor.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I guess that England came from the United States too.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus was the Messiah who will reign.

Not unless the New Testament is rife with many errors.

 

[Trailblazer]

It was a joke!!!

Maybe it was but I am dead serious.

 

[Rival]

Maybe it was but I am dead serious.

I've not heard of a messianic expectation in Asatru or Kemeticism. I was commenting on the fact that Christians won't leave Jews alone and Jews continuously explain why they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah, but nothing ever seems to sink in.