How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

This commentary ignores that Jesus claimed others could perform the same "command miracle".

Christ was talking to his apostles about being fruitful. He didn't literally ask them to curse trees.

 

[dybmh]

Christ was talking to his apostles about being fruitful. He didn't literally ask them to curse trees.

Can you find a commentry that includes this detail? I would appreciate it.

 

[Skywalker]

Can you find a commentry that includes this detail? I would appreciate it.

The BIble never said Christ asked them to literally do it. Christ is God they were human beings. False Charges Against Christ

(3) It must be emphasized that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He possesses the nature of deity (John 1:1; 10:30; 20:28). As deity, therefore, the earth and its fullness are his (Psalm 24:1). He has the sovereign right to use the elements of creation to accomplish higher goals which men, limited in knowledge, may not perceive and appreciate at a given moment in time. That includes the destruction of a tree, or even a herd of swine (cf. Mark 5:13). No man has the right to say of him, “What doest thou?” (Daniel 4:35; cf. Romans 11:33-36).

 

[dybmh]

The BIble never said Christ asked them to literally do it. Christ is God they were human beings. False Charges Against Christ

This link doesn't discuss the lesson taught by telling others they can curse the fig tree in the same way that God can.

 

[Skywalker]

This link doesn't discuss the lesson taught by telling others they can curse the fig tree in the same way that God can.

it was similar to the parable of the barren fig tree. Parable of the barren fig tree - Wikipedia

The parable is as follows: Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and found none. ... If it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down. ' ”

 

[dybmh]

it was similar to the parable of the barren fig tree. Parable of the barren fig tree - Wikipedia

Sorry, this is missing it too.

I'll research it on my own and see if I can find anything.

 

[Skywalker]

@Skywalker,

If I understand, your position is that the fig tree represented unrepentant Israel, and the parable/lesson of cursing the fig tree teaches that God curses the unrepentant?

If that's correct, what's the parable/lesson taught when Jesus tells others that they can curse a fig tree in the same manner?

The intent of Christ was not to disrespect anyone. False Charges Against Christ

(2) As to the charge that Jesus destroyed an object that was not his, several things must be noted.

First, it cannot be established that the tree had an owner. Matthew observes that it was growing “by the wayside” (21:19). It may have been a “volunteer” tree, as such are known in any land. It is worthy of notation that Peter did not rebuke the Lord for destroying another’s property, even though the impetuous apostle was not reticent to admonish his Master when he felt the circumstance warranted such (cf. Matthew 16:22).

W. M. Thompson, a scholar eminently familiar with Palestine customs, pointed out that it was common for travelers to pick fruit from roadside trees, or from any tree that was not enclosed; there was no censure associated with such (1863, 350).

 

[TrueBeliever37]

So where did the communion come from? From my research it's an occult practice.

Cursing a fig tree? What does that sound like to you?

Sounds like you are trying to come up with some bogus accusations, rather than examples of failed prophecy.

 

[dybmh]

Sounds like you are trying to come up with some bogus accusations, rather than examples of failed prophecy.

Whether or not there were failed prophecy doesn't matter if Jesus was preaching a new or different religion.

 

[Skywalker]

@Skywalker,

If I understand, your position is that the fig tree represented unrepentant Israel, and the parable/lesson of cursing the fig tree teaches that God curses the unrepentant?

If that's correct, what's the parable/lesson taught when Jesus tells others that they can curse a fig tree in the same manner?

Jesus was talking about actions and situations that don't produce fruit. He wasn't saying anything bad about unbelievers. Why Did Jesus Curse the Fig Tree?

Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered (Matthew 21:18-19).

Fig trees are for making figs.

Pretty simple, really. We plant apple trees because we want apples, peach trees because we want peaches, orange trees because we want oranges, and fig trees because we want figs. We might as well ask what good is an apple tree that doesn't produce apples? You might as well cut it down. Or curse it, as Jesus did the fig tree in Matthew 21:18-19.

How did Jesus know the fig tree was barren? Because the leaves and the fruit typically appear at about the same time. To see a fig tree covered with leaves but with no fruit meant that it was barren.

 

[dybmh]

Jesus was talking about actions and situations that don't produce fruit.

I'm looking for the lesson taught by Jesus when he said that others could curse the fig tree like he did, if they believe.

Ref: Matthew 21:21

In review of commentary on this verse, it looks like the lesson taught is that faith fuels miracles. If this is a valid interpretation, my question is: Is this a feature of a new/different religion?

 

[Skywalker]

You say you keep the Torah to the best of your ability. If you don't mind my asking:

What are Totafot which you are commanded to place between your eyes?
How are you instructed to slaughter animals as referenced in Deut 12:21?
What constitutes "work" that one may not do on the sabbath?
What birds do you eat or not eat when you keep the Torah?
Do you carry out the various death penalties demanded in the text?
Do you wear tsitsiyot on a bathing suit?
If the events prompting the festivals occured outside of Israel, why would there be any difference how one keeps them when one is inside/outside Israel?

Just curious and off the cuff. Thanks.

There's nothing unbiblical about a Christian wearing Totafot or not working on the sabbath and not eating certain foods or wearing tsitsiyot or celebrating Jewish festivals.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm looking for the lesson taught by Jesus when he said that others could curse the fig tree like he did, if they believe.

Ref: Matthew 21:21

In review of commentary on this verse, it looks like the lesson taught is that faith fuels miracles. If this is a valid interpretation, my question is: Is this a feature of a new/different religion?

Jesus was talking about the power of faith he wasn't being literal. Interpreting what Jesus said as magic tricks is taking is too literally. It's like Matthew 17:20

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

 

[dybmh]

Jesus was talking about the power of faith he wasn't being literal. Interpreting what Jesus said as magic tricks is taking is too literally. It's like Matthew 17:20

Is "the power of faith" a new religious practice? I'm not finding anything like it in Judaism.

 

[Skywalker]

Is "the power of faith" a new religious practice? I'm not finding anything like it in Judaism.

Jesus wasn't talking about the word of faith or speaking things into existence.

 

[dybmh]

Jesus wasn't talking about the word of faith or speaking things into existence.

ok, granted, but what he was describing was new, at least new to Judaism right?

 

[Skywalker]

ok, granted, but what he was describing was new, at least new to Judaism right?

Moses had faith in trusting God. Matthew 21:21 Commentaries: And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.

(21) If ye have faith, and doubt not.—The promise, in its very form, excludes a literal fulfilment. The phrase to “remove mountains” (as in 1Corinthians 13:2) was a natural hyperbole for overcoming difficulties, and our Lord in pointing to “this mountain”—as He had done before to Hermon (Matthew 17:20)—did but give greater vividness to an illustration which the disciples would readily understand. A mere physical miracle, such as the removal of the mountain, could never be in itself the object of the prayer of a faith such as our Lord described. The hyperbole is used here, as elsewhere, to impress on men’s mind the truth which lies beneath it.

 

[Skywalker]

ok, granted, but what he was describing was new, at least new to Judaism right?

To what extent do you think Judaism existed in the Tanakh times? Origins of Judaism - Wikipedia

From the 5th century BCE until 70 CE, Israelite religion developed into the various theological schools of Second Temple Judaism, besides Hellenistic Judaism in the diaspora.

 

[dybmh]

Moses had faith in trusting God.

Can you find anything in Jewish scripture to support this. I searched and coudn't find anything which matches the power of faith as described in the gospels.

 

[dybmh]

To what extent do you think Judaism existed in the Tanakh times?

The strongest evidence would come from Tanach. It would need to be a story of a miracle which required faith.