How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

I understand, but, how do you know that it works?

I believe that the Messiah died for our sins because when people commit crimes they go to jail, and because God is love, He didn't want us to have to make the payment.

 

[rational experiences]

Illogical replaced use of spiritual consciousness by machine designer human replaced with AI interference.

Machine encoded.

Thesis sun ejected UFO mass did sink hole Conversion origin. Science wisdom on earth.

Earth flooded saved God mass.

Mountain tips above water line flat topped.

Theist. Thinks. Is supposed to say earth no longer owned protective flood. UFO still present. How much more mass would it have converted.

I live not under water mass. The flood. I exist in evaporated thinned water mass. As UFO event removed.

So theories falsely. Origins science. Water is water. Water cannot thin. Water X mass evaporated. How his thinking is irrational.

UFO sun attacked stopped

Activated science time nuclear shift.

Theory was sun X mass. Observations not aware of how much mass. In thesis.

Earth core heart release vacuum planet God union UFO in space accumulates and remasses origin that equals sun mass ejection.

Thesis to copy.
Thesis to reinvent. By invention. Yet God never owned the machine

Theory thinks machine first.
Machine is invented. Machine did not exist. UFO metal mass did.

How reinvention to invent invented life sacrificed destruction. Reinvented by eventuation accumulated UFO mass.

Always thinks self safe uses science then UFO attacks life.

Jesus just life sacrificed as ice massed state held water equals pressure equals cold that replaced what water never achieved.

To cool burning gas.

As mass is not a burning gas it had been sucked cooled by vacuum history itself. Lost radiating effect origin.

Jesus life of man plus babies in cloud imaged. Never discussed that effect only said man adult as man adult was scientist. Only discussed man in clouds not babies in clouds.

Lots of babies imaged in clouds also.

Moses said firstborn children were sacrificed completely ignored by male who was involved using technology.

Reason Rome got irradiated UFO Nero event. Mind lost. Self idolisation expressed lived as he had been irradiated. Would not listen to correct advice.

Father conscious first spirit man memory. Father human life recorded in heavens.

Directly used by all men today.

Yet from first recording man body ape mutated remained sick sacrificed constant fake UFO cause. All lives lived since.

Man life evoked UFO was meant to stop 2012. Proof mind became less irradiated more spiritual.

Thinks first as self human claims from spirit father memory to self time shifted all those lives experienced as if he is a miracle.

Thought upon as a fake thinking possession by selves who only think it.

Everything is thought first

So it is correct as read. Life is still sacrificed.

Keeps returning sacrifice by UFO event proven shroud of Turin kept as evidence it returned without machines.

Disperses atmosphere and is shared by all nations as stated.

 

[metis]

Jewish is an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture. Jewish is a nationality if one considers Israelis to be Jewish. but diaspora ethnic groups use different terminology from their country of origin.

Take that statement over to the Judaism DIR and see what their response will be. I know what it is because I belonged to a synagogue for over 20 years and taught [adults] in it.

Here:
Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation,[11][55][12][56][57][58] an ethnicity,[10] a religion, and a culture,[59][60][61] making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used.[62][63] Generally, in modern secular usage Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion.[64] -- Jews - Wikipedia

 

[Skywalker]

Take that statement over to the Judaism DIR and see what their response will be. I know what it is because I belonged to a synagogue for over 20 years and taught [adults] in it.

Here:
Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation,[11][55][12][56][57][58] an ethnicity,[10] a religion, and a culture,[59][60][61] making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used.[62][63] Generally, in modern secular usage Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion.[64] -- Jews - Wikipedia

Jewish is different from Hebrew and Israeli. The people of the Bible weren't called Israelis and a Jewish person saying that they are Hebrew would be like an African American saying they are African.

 

[metis]

Jewish is different from Hebrew and Israeli. The people of the Bible weren't called Israelis and a Jewish person saying that they are Hebrew would be like an African American saying they are African.

There were some name changes as time went on, and it appears that the earliest name was "Hebrews". "Jews" was a term added later and appears to originally refer to Judah.

See: Hebrews - Wikipedia

 

[Skywalker]

There were some name changes as time went on, and it appears that the earliest name was "Hebrews". "Jews" was a term added later and appears to originally refer to Judah.

See: Hebrews - Wikipedia

The term Jewish not existing until later supports that Jewish and Christian are not mutually exclusive.

 

[metis]

The term Jewish not existing until later supports that Jewish and Christian are not mutually exclusive.

That's called a "non-sequitur".

However, I never said that they were "mutually exclusive"-- just different religions that developed over time with different leadership and many different teachings and rules. I still go to both Christian and Jewish
services at times, but then I also have gone to mosques, Hindu temples, and Buddhist shrines.

I simply do not believe any one religion had a monopoly on Love and Truth and God.

 

[Skywalker]

That's called a "non-sequitur".

However, I never said that they were "mutually exclusive"-- just different religions that developed over time with different leadership and many different teachings and rules. I still go to both Christian and Jewish
services at times, but then I also have gone to mosques, Hindu temples, and Buddhist shrines.

I simply do not believe any one religion had a monopoly on Love and Truth and God.

Before the separation of Judaism and Christianity, Jewish and Christian being different religions was a non-issue. Following the Torah and Jesus are not mutually exclusive. Believing in Jesus and meditation and polytheism are mutually exclusive.

 

[metis]

Before the separation of Judaism and Christianity, Jewish and Christian being different religions was a non-issue.

The split was gradual, and one should rather easily see the beginnings of that in the Gospel.

Following the Torah and Jesus are not mutually exclusive.

Depends on how one deals with the whole of Torah, and there's a HUGE and irreputable split on that.

Believing in Jesus and meditation and polytheism are mutually exclusive.

Polytheism is but not meditation. Matter of fact, one of the oldest forms of prayer in the early Church can be called "contemplative meditation" that could be based on scripture and/or praying for God's guidance. I use this far more often than "prayers of supplication [petition]".

 

[Skywalker]

The split was gradual, and one should rather easily see the beginnings of that in the Gospel.

Depends on how one deals with the whole of Torah, and there's a HUGE and irreputable split on that.

Polytheism is but not meditation. Matter of fact, one of the oldest forms of prayer in the early Church can be called "contemplative meditation" that could be based on scripture and/or praying for God's guidance. I use this far more often than "prayers of supplication [petition]".

The first followers of Jesus were not called Christians.

There's a difference between rabbinic interpretation and the Old Testament itself.

 

[Skywalker]

The split was gradual, and one should rather easily see the beginnings of that in the Gospel.

Depends on how one deals with the whole of Torah, and there's a HUGE and irreputable split on that.

Polytheism is but not meditation. Matter of fact, one of the oldest forms of prayer in the early Church can be called "contemplative meditation" that could be based on scripture and/or praying for God's guidance. I use this far more often than "prayers of supplication [petition]".

Contemplative prayer is not supported by the Bible. Bible verses are to be taken in the proper context. Without proper context, truth and lies can easily be mixed. Is Contemplative Prayer A Legitimate Approach To God? | Reasons for Jesus

By Mike Shreve| There is an undeniable link between far eastern religions and the contemplative prayer movement. One of its main proponents for many years was the Catholic monk, Thomas Merton, who was very pluralistic in his worldview. For instance, he asserted, “I see no contradiction between Buddhism and Christianity…I intend to become as good a Buddhist as I can.”*1

The truth is there are irreconcilable differences between Buddhism and Christianity. Buddha was basically atheistic in his worldview. He also taught that two beliefs that must be forsaken to achieve nirvana are: (1) the belief that we each have an individual soul; (2) the belief that our souls can have a personal existence in a heavenly state. Jesus strongly promoted the opposite. So how can these two worldviews be merged in any way?

 

[metis]

The first followers of Jesus were not called Christians.

I never said or implied it was, so why did you even post this?

There's a difference between rabbinic interpretation and the Old Testament itself.

Rabbinic interpretations are based on what's found in the Tanakh, but they are not held at the same level.

 

[metis]

Contemplative prayer is not supported by the Bible.

False. What do you think the prophets did for often days on end in the desert? What do you think just spent so much time doing in the Garden? Do you honestly believe they just sat down and mouthed supplications for hours or days on end. Don't you know one of the main purposes of prayer is to listen? How can we listen if we are constantly mouthing word after word after word.

Bible verses are to be taken in the proper context. Without proper context, truth and lies can easily be mixed. Is Contemplative Prayer A Legitimate Approach To God? | Reasons for Jesus

I've run across this nonsense many times over.

Prayer is not just talking-- it's also listening and allowing the Holy Spirit to work within us.

 

[Skywalker]

False. What do you think the prophets did for often days on end in the desert? What do you think just spent so much time doing in the Garden? Do you honestly believe they just sat down and mouthed supplications for hours or days on end. Don't you know one of the main purposes of prayer is to listen? How can we listen if we are constantly mouthing word after word after word.

I've run across this nonsense many times over.

Prayer is not just talking-- it's also listening and allowing the Holy Spirit to work within us.

How is listening and allowing the Holy Spirit to work within us contemplative prayer? Praying to God has nothing to do with a higher state of consciousness. Is Contemplative Prayer A Legitimate Approach To God? | Reasons for Jesus

Apparently, many contemplatives feel the spiritual, ecstatic state attained through their methods is no different than the supposed higher states of consciousness that Hindu, Buddhist, New Age and yoga advocates claim to reach. I contend that there is an enormous difference between the true experience of Jesus Christ as opposed to the paranormal experiences offered through these other groups. A few meditation and prayer methods promoted in the contemplative movement may be legitimate (like slowly and quietly pondering the meaning of God’s Word), while most are quite illegitimate.

 

[Skywalker]

I never said or implied it was, so why did you even post this?

Rabbinic interpretations are based on what's found in the Tanakh, but they are not held at the same level.

The gospels do not support the idea that you are either Jewish or Christian and you can't be both.

The Torah itself doesn't teach that following Jesus and the Torah are mutually exclusive, its an interpretation of rabbis. Rabbis are human beings, just like pastors and priests-they are not infallible.

 

[Skywalker]

False. What do you think the prophets did for often days on end in the desert? What do you think just spent so much time doing in the Garden? Do you honestly believe they just sat down and mouthed supplications for hours or days on end. Don't you know one of the main purposes of prayer is to listen? How can we listen if we are constantly mouthing word after word after word.

I've run across this nonsense many times over.

Prayer is not just talking-- it's also listening and allowing the Holy Spirit to work within us.

Prayer is about having a relationship with God. It's not about asking God for things. Listening has nothing to do with having a mind altering experience. Is Contemplative Prayer A Legitimate Approach To God? | Reasons for Jesus

The goal is achieving a state of non-thought: the same thing Buddhists and mystics of other Far Eastern religions reach for—in order to be lifted to a some so-called superior sphere of consciousness. In refuting methods like this, that are aimed to reach higher levels of spirituality, Ray Yungen offers the following observations:

“Legitimate mysticism was always initiated by God to certain individuals for certain revelations and was never based on a method for the changing of consciousness. In Acts, Peter fell into a trance while in prayer (Acts 11:5). But it was God, not Peter, who initiated the trance and facilitated it.”*6

 

[metis]

Listening has nothing to do with having a mind altering experience

Who said anything about a "mid-altering experience"? Not I, nor did I imply anything like that.

The Torah itself doesn't teach that following Jesus and the Torah are mutually exclusive,

The Torah doesn't say anything about Jesus.

I don't get on-line on Sundays, plus I usually use that break as an opportunity to end my involvement on most threads, thus this is likely my last post on this. It's not personal, so please don't take it that way.

Take care.

 

[Skywalker]

Who said anything about a "mid-altering experience"? Not I, nor did I imply anything like that.
The Torah doesn't say anything about Jesus.

I don't get on-line on Sundays, plus I usually use that break as an opportunity to end my involvement on most threads, thus this is likely my last post on this. It's not personal, so please don't take it that way.

Take care.

There's not much in the Torah about the traditional Jewish messiah either

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The early followers of Jesus were not originally called Christians. The term is mentioned 3 times in the Bible.

How does changing the subject completely qualify as a response either? Sometimes I just don't get you.

 

[Skywalker]

How does changing the subject completely qualify as a response either? Sometimes I just don't get you.

You said that it's illogical to try to reconcile following Jesus and Jewish law. I said that the early followers of Jesus weren't considered Christians and that term isn't mentioned a lot on the Bible. They preached Jesus but they didn't use the term Christians like it is used today.