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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
metis said:
Who said anything about a "mid-altering experience"? Not I, nor did I imply anything like that.
The Torah doesn't say anything about Jesus.

I don't get on-line on Sundays, plus I usually use that break as an opportunity to end my involvement on most threads, thus this is likely my last post on this. It's not personal, so please don't take it that way.

Take care.
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Jesus was the prophet like unto Moses because Jesus isn't just a prophet. He is prophet, priest, and king. Deuteronomy 18:15-19 - A Prophet Like Moses

Moses prophesied that the day would come when Jehovah would raise up, from within the nation of Israel, a prophet who would be like him in many respects. This coming prophet would speak divine words, and those who refused to hear his words would give account for such rebellion (Deuteronomy 18:15-19).

One does not have to speculate on the fulfillment of this prediction. The coming prophet was none other than Jesus Christ, as Peter affirms when he quotes this Old Testament passage in his great sermon in Acts 3 (see vv. 22,23).

The fact is, there were many similarities between Moses and Christ. Both were: leaders, prophets, law-givers, mediators, etc. For an extended list of likenesses (and contrasts as well) between Moses and Christ, see Burton Coffman, Commentary on Hebrews, pp. 67-69.

Bracket Deuteronomy 18:15-19 and in your margin write: Fulfilled in Christ; see Acts 3:22,23. Both were law-givers, mediators, etc.
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S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
Ooookay...what does that have to do with anything?
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Zoroastrians mention hell and a Messiah because we all know about the one God who created everything and who he is, to one degree or another. The similarities between Zoroastrianism and Christianity hint, not refute, that Jesus is God.
 
Harel13

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Skywalker said:
Zoroastrians mention hell and a Messiah because we all know about the one God who created everything and who he is, to one degree or another. The similarities between Zoroastrianism and Christianity hint, not refute, that Jesus is God.
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And? Let me rephrase
What does Zoroastrianism have anything to do with what I wrote on this thread?
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
I believe that realizing it or not, everyone believes in Jesus. salvation in beliefs are either what we do or by what Christ did for us.
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I feel that way about preferring chocolate over vanilla. Everyone does, even those who say they don't and those who have heard of neither. I mean, chocolate has done more for us than Jesus...that's for sure.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
I see. And the Mayans?
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There are hints in Native American religions about Jesus. I believe that everyone knows where we came from deep down inside. Native american christian pow wows?

Ecclesiastes 3:11

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" Romans 1:20

In addition to these two scriptures think about this concept; all people on this Earth descend from Noah and his wife and kids, we also all descend from Adam and Eve further back. NOah, Adam, and Eve are all recorded to have a personal relationship with God and it only makes sense that they passed on knowledge of God to their offsprings who passed it to their offspring, etc. Over time, almost any story spread by word of mouth will change at least a little. and when there is a real enemy with his dark warriors constantly spreading lies about God on the Earth, there are bound to be people who end up changing stories of God. Even in native culture you can find stories of the creation and the flood that are similar to Biblical accounts but have been corrupted. With an understanding of God's love and the fact that He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9b) and think it only makes sense that He would give the Native AMerican people and all people a chance to know Him even if the Bible and the gospel message have not yet been brought to them.

Let me tell you just a couple examples from Native cultures to help further answer this. I know a Lakota Sioux man who has told me that in his people's language there was a concept of the Creator being triune before any European got here. THey had a word for the Creator being Father, Son, and Spirit three in one before the Bible was ever brought to them. they also understood that the Son had come to Earth to be a sacrifice for the people and was killed on a tree by the people of a strange shaped star (The star of David/Jewish people). I also have Apache friends who tell me that their language also already had a name for each member of the Trinity before the Bible was brought here.

One of the greatest examples comes from the Aztec people. see there was a time when the Aztec people were a small nomadic tribe wandering the Sonoran Desert. At this time they served only one God named Cenhuelitini (All-Powerful One). All-Powerful One told them of a certain tree that they were not to cut down. One day, somebody cut down this tree and they were made to wander away from the Sonoran Desert that they called Aztlan. THey were given a vision of an Eagle perched on a cactus with a snake in its mouth. THey were to wander until they found this vision and then tell the people in that area of Him. For two hundred years they wandered as a people and none of the original wanderers still lived. THey found the vision, settled, and grew into a strong empire; but their hearts forgot All-Powerful One's condition that they tell their new neighbors of Him. So instead they took on the false gods of the Mayan, Zapotec, Chichimec, and other nearby tribes.

there is a book called "Eternity in Their HEarts" by Don Richardson. He goes through many different people groups historically and today who have Biblical concepts of God in their belief system without ever reading a Bible or speaking with a Christian. The book includes several Native American tribes. I would recommend this book if you still are wondering about Natives or any tribal peoples and their historic relationship with the God of the Bible.
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S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
I feel that way about preferring chocolate over vanilla. Everyone does, even those who say they don't and those who have heard of neither. I mean, chocolate has done more for us than Jesus...that's for sure.
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If Jesus isn't the Messiah, why do unbelievers who study the Bible admit that the Tanakh talks about original sin and us needing a Savior because we are separated from God by our sins? Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Jesus was a savior deity. In Judaism they came up with the concept of original sin and ideas that one cannot get into an afterlife with too much "sin-force". So Jesus gets you into a heaven by erasing sins. All saviors get you into an afterlife by some process. Jesus is the Jewish version of the myth.
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Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
rosends said:
I feel that way about preferring chocolate over vanilla. Everyone does, even those who say they don't and those who have heard of neither. I mean, chocolate has done more for us than Jesus...that's for sure.
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Are you trying to say Jesus was vanilla? I dunno, that cross stuff seemed pretty intense....

Chocolate rules.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
Because they don't know what they are talking about.

Why do unbelievers who study the gospels say they are full of crap?
The Church Of Truth™
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Those people have no bias in what they say. They have discussions about whey they don't believe in the Bible and Jesus. They believe that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah being a Savior because they read the Old Testament and come to that conclusion. The more you read the Bible, the more you notice things that you didn't notice earlier.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Harel13 said:
You forgot to mention that they were also big on human sacrifices; another similarity.
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I believe that pagan practices existed because those cultures walked away from the God who they knew about. Native american christian pow wows?

Let me tell you just a couple examples from Native cultures to help further answer this. I know a Lakota Sioux man who has told me that in his people's language there was a concept of the Creator being triune before any European got here. THey had a word for the Creator being Father, Son, and Spirit three in one before the Bible was ever brought to them. they also understood that the Son had come to Earth to be a sacrifice for the people and was killed on a tree by the people of a strange shaped star (The star of David/Jewish people). I also have Apache friends who tell me that their language also already had a name for each member of the Trinity before the Bible was brought here.

One of the greatest examples comes from the Aztec people. see there was a time when the Aztec people were a small nomadic tribe wandering the Sonoran Desert. At this time they served only one God named Cenhuelitini (All-Powerful One). All-Powerful One told them of a certain tree that they were not to cut down. One day, somebody cut down this tree and they were made to wander away from the Sonoran Desert that they called Aztlan. THey were given a vision of an Eagle perched on a cactus with a snake in its mouth. THey were to wander until they found this vision and then tell the people in that area of Him. For two hundred years they wandered as a people and none of the original wanderers still lived. THey found the vision, settled, and grew into a strong empire; but their hearts forgot All-Powerful One's condition that they tell their new neighbors of Him. So instead they took on the false gods of the Mayan, Zapotec, Chichimec, and other nearby tribes.

there is a book called "Eternity in Their HEarts" by Don Richardson. He goes through many different people groups historically and today who have Biblical concepts of God in their belief system without ever reading a Bible or speaking with a Christian. The book includes several Native American tribes. I would recommend this book if you still are wondering about Natives or any tribal peoples and their historic relationship with the God of the Bible.
Click to expand...
 
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