How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[Skywalker]

What is the relevance of this to the post you are trying to reply to? The topic was Why is Chrisitanity avodah zarah for the Jew.

You mentioned an association for God. I thought you were talking about the depictions of Jesus.

 

[rosends]

An aspect of being Jewish is following the teachings of the covenant between God and Israel. Jewish also has connotations of a relationship with God, ethnic, cultural, and national group.

An aspect of being an American is following the speed limit, but if you give up your citizenship by pledging loyalty to another country, you aren't a citizen, no matter how slowly you drive.

 

[Skywalker]

An aspect of being an American is following the speed limit, but if you give up your citizenship by pledging loyalty to another country, you aren't a citizen, no matter how slowly you drive.

There are different laws about dual citizenship. The laws about dual citizenship have reasons besides treason.

 

[rosends]

There are different laws about dual citizenship. The laws about dual citizenship have reasons besides treason.

That's why I didn't say anything about dual loyalty. Someone who pledges loyalty to another country (read section 349 if the INA, but that's neither here nor there) can face loss of citizenship.

 

[Skywalker]

That's why I didn't say anything about dual loyalty. Someone who pledges loyalty to another country (read section 349 if the INA, but that's neither here nor there) can face loss of citizenship.

That's because of issues of conflict of interest and treason. How does following the teachings of Jesus contradict following the teachings of the covenant between God and Israel?

 

[rosends]

That's because of issues of conflict of interest and treason. How does following the teachings of Jesus contradict following the teachings of the covenant between God and Israel?

I will make this simple for you:
1. Jesus was not in a position to change any laws, yet he did.
2. Jesus was not in a position to be considered a messiah, but some did.
3. Jesus was not a prophet, a king or an approved leader.

to follow him in any human capacity was wrong. To think that his role went beyond that is idolatry. You don't have to like it, but that's part of Judaism which you clearly don't know, so this just demonstrates how you shouldn't be representing any Jewish position.

 

[Skywalker]

I will make this simple for you:
1. Jesus was not in a position to change any laws, yet he did.
2. Jesus was not in a position to be considered a messiah, but some did.
3. Jesus was not a prophet, a king or an approved leader.

to follow him in any human capacity was wrong. To think that his role went beyond that is idolatry. You don't have to like it, but that's part of Judaism which you clearly don't know, so this just demonstrates how you shouldn't be representing any Jewish position.

Jesus was not in a position to be considered a Messiah because the Jews at the time were waiting for a political figure Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans, not a Creator and a Savior.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You mentioned an association for God. I thought you were talking about the depictions of Jesus.

Why would you think I'm talking about depictions of Jesus????? You know I don't think Jesus is God.

What I was referring to is the Christian habit of using Jesus as an association for God.

But I think you knew that.

 

[rosends]

Jesus was not in a position to be considered a Messiah because the Jews at the time were waiting for a political figure Messiah who would deliver them from the Romans, not a Creator and a Savior.

So your underlying premise must "Jews were wrong about their own religion, texts and understanding". Since you start with that, there is no going forward.

 

[Skywalker]

Why would you think I'm talking about depictions of Jesus????? You know I don't think Jesus is God.

What I was referring to is the Christian habit of using Jesus as an association for God.

But I think you knew that.

I thought you meant that depictions of Jesus are an issue with the belief that Jesus is God, when you mentioned the Christian habit of using Jesus as an association for God.

 

[Skywalker]

So your underlying premise must "Jews were wrong about their own religion, texts and understanding". Since you start with that, there is no going forward.

What makes the concept of the Messiah as a political figure more based on the Bible, based on the texts and understandings, than the idea of the Messiah as a Creator and a Savior?

 

[rosends]

What makes the concept of the Messiah as a political figure more based on the Bible, based on the texts and understandings, than the idea of the Messiah as a Creator and a Savior?

More problems -- you are injecting "politics" and I don't know why and creating this weird binary which excludes what teh Jewish idea of teh messiah actually IS. You are also limiting your sources to things that make sense to you, omitting what makes Judaism, Judaism. This all bespeaks more ignorance of Judaism.

 

[Skywalker]

More problems -- you are injecting "politics" and I don't know why and creating this weird binary which excludes what teh Jewish idea of teh messiah actually IS. You are also limiting your sources to things that make sense to you, omitting what makes Judaism, Judaism. This all bespeaks more ignorance of Judaism.

The Jewish belief of the Messiah is not that of God and a Savior.

 

[rosends]

The Jewish belief of the Messiah is not that of God and a Savior.

OK, so according to that statement and to you as someone who believes that the messiah is "God and Savior," your underlying position is that Judaism doesn't understand its own messiah.

 

[Skywalker]

OK, so according to that statement and to you as someone who believes that the messiah is "God and Savior," your underlying position is that Judaism doesn't understand its own messiah.

I was explaining why I don't believe in the notion that Jesus was not in a position to be considered a Messiah.

 

[rosends]

I was explaining why I don't believe in the notion that Jesus was not in a position to be considered a Messiah.

That's nice. But you aren't Jewish and don't understand Judaism and your personal belief is irrelevant to Judaism. Regardless of the reason, though, your explanation is predicated on "the Jewish idea of a Jewish concept is wrong."

 

[Skywalker]

That's nice. But you aren't Jewish and don't understand Judaism and your personal belief is irrelevant to Judaism. Regardless of the reason, though, your explanation is predicated on "the Jewish idea of a Jewish concept is wrong."

Jesus not being in a position to be considered the Messiah is based on interpretations of the Old Testament, not the Old Testament itself.

 

[rosends]

Jesus not being in a position to be considered the Messiah is based on interpretations of the Old Testament, not the Old Testament itself.

This is ignorance on 2 and maybe 3 levels. Good going!

 

[Skywalker]

This is ignorance on 2 and maybe 3 levels. Good going!

There were Jewish people during the time of the New Testament who didn't believe in the interpretation of Old Testament prophecies that the Messiah was a mere man.

 

[rosends]

There were Jewish people during the time of the New Testament who didn't believe in the interpretation of Old Testament prophecies that the Messiah was a mere man.

Sure, and there are Americans now who think that 5G is killing people. Some Jews followed Shabbtai Tzvi. Saying random things isn't very helpful.