If a certain society promote some good values, following them doesn't mean it's an insult, but the most important following these values should be out of a conscious decision. That's why the Muslim before taking any step must stop and ask him/herself why I am doing this. Because if you're doing it for the sake of people (because people do it), it's not accepted by God, to be accepted the Muslim must do it for the sake of God solely. If this is the principle of the Muslim, it means also s/he should be ready to resist any pressure that makes him/her behave against God's will. To summarize the Muslim's standard is God whether he lives in a society that promotes God's laws or not.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How can a Muslim woman consider it Honorable to wear the headscarf?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
- Start date
gnostic
The Lost One
sahar said:
I view spirituality differently.
Since I am not a religious person, spirituality have different meaning. So I don't really believe in spirit or soul, in the religious sense.
Spirituality could mean anything like emotional well-being or even intellectual (or mental) well-being. It has all to with "self" or "ego".
So, instead of saying they promote animalism values, which could be all true, mind you (meaning that I'd agree with you, sahar), but it is also try to make a person feels good about herself. Feel good or comfortable about your body may sounds selfish and egotistic, but negative attitude towards your own body, can also be just as self-destructive.
Don't get me wrong, I feel that people who are obsessed with how they look can also be self-destructive (like anorexia) or make a person seemed shallow, but I am not talking about looking fantastic. I just think people should feel comfortable with their body and avoid extremes.
No, they don't try to make the woman feel good about herself. They set certain measures of the body parts as a standard for beauty. Consequently, many women's effort and time became dedicated to reach that standard. But here is the thing, why don't you feel good about your intellect, helping others, excelling in your career, gaining knowledge, building bridges between people, playing with the orphans, etc,...this is the real achievements that really make you feel good and that give you inner peace, no matter how your body size is. I think the hijab is excellent in promoting these meanings.
Feeling comfortable with your body is difficult to emphasize in an environment that promote a certain size of the breasts or buttocks, etc.
Gnostic, I don't think we disagree much.
Starsoul
Truth
Do you consider Nuns evil for what they wear? which is a head scarf and a loose dress? And do you also consider that they are suppressed, oppressed by their popes/bishops and forced into wearing it?
Also, what Muslim wear within the boundaries of their homes is pretty much what they want to wear, its only when they go outside or are communicating with strange men, that they don an exterior covering comprising of Hijab and a loose garment upon themselves. I would expect only decent people to understand that.
I totally refute when You say that dress of a woman In Islam is controlled By men, It is the undressing of western women that is controlled and benefitted ENTIRELY by men. You must've seen that when>> outhouse<< posted a picture of an almost naked lady, that clearly shows how objectified women are in a western society, All he could post was a woman's body, and argue that women who cover are oppressed, because they choose not to show you what you derive pleasure from and want to see all the time?
He's a very good example of what is being discussed,If men like him ( and Most straight men are like him) admired anyone for their intelligence ONLY , or had even bothered to look beyond the exposed body, I could think 'maybe western women are treasured for their such such and values and etc" BUT No, Men DO think of women as sexual objects when they expose themselves to such liberal extents, its not like he said," awwh look at this admirable intellectual lady" by looking at her body, why would men go for intellectual ladies when lucrative available distractions are out there for an easy grab?
Who are the role models of the western society? Its a plain guess most of the youth and teens only Idealize and Idolize Super stars, Musicians and Hollywood figures who probably make an admirable impression on the society based on their looks and Lavish life styles, which frequently end up unhappy, divorced, depressed, suicidal or addicted. And by the time people do figure out that all that glitters is not gold, Its too late to go settle the mess you've made out of your own lives.
And If some women have the self respect to dishonor such obvious ways to incite attraction and attention, It is their choice and that choice is based on the Commandment and Recommendation of The Creator of both men and women, Allah , who knows what goes on in the minds of them under what circumstances, Not men. What men want is dancing naked ladies around them, not fully covered bland un-attractive people, as some choose to perceive.
Last edited:
Starsoul
Truth
Very well said, for instance when you Live in the States for sometime there is only a few things you can see the society is driven by, Obsession about Money and sex, it is just too overwhelming.
Last edited:
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
if Islam removed the religious requirement to wear the hijab and if islamic cultures removed the pressure to conform to wearing the hijab, then the islamic world would have the same situation as we have in the west
when the women are free to choose, they will wear what they themselves view as proper...some women will continue to wear the hijab because they view it as modest attire, and women who are not modest from within will wear whatever they want.
modesty will be displayed to the extent that the womans heart tells her... no more and no less and she will be demonstrating her modesty toward God and not to people who demand it.
when the women are free to choose, they will wear what they themselves view as proper...some women will continue to wear the hijab because they view it as modest attire, and women who are not modest from within will wear whatever they want.
modesty will be displayed to the extent that the womans heart tells her... no more and no less and she will be demonstrating her modesty toward God and not to people who demand it.
Actually, for the Islamic culture to change, the attitudes toward what is and is not modest would change. Thus the general population would also shift their dress to fit the new ideas of modesty. But I don't think that is likely to happen if the scripture states the specific requirements.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
but we are not all overwhelmed by it. We get terribly annoyed and incensed at it, yes. But we dont have to follow in its footsteps... we can go against the grain and wear clothing which are not sexually appealing
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i did ask earlier what the Quran specifically says with regard to the hijab and was told that it says 'the women must be covered'
do you know the scriptures which specifically discuss 'how' they are to be covered? does it stated the arm is to be covered, or the head or the face etc???
Which is why there is so much depression, violence, psychological problems etc.
I can agree that there are problems in all cultures and do not necessarily disagree with Americans when they have particular criticisms of other cultures. I just get annoyed when they forget or don't realise that their culture also has very serious problems.
I haven't read it myself, but I am under the impression that women are required to cover hair, arms, legs etc. but not face.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
hmmm i dont understand why arms would have to be covered, but if any muslims can provide the verses i'd be interested to see them
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
This woman
who appears to be conservatively(i.e. modestly) dressed was fired from a bank, she claims, because she was making the male employees uncomfortable. She is wearing clothing that is modest by today's standards. No hajib, no burqua, but still told she too sexy to work in a bank and must dress down in order to keep her job.
Read more: Debrahlee Lorenzana sues Citibank saying she was fired from Citibank for being too hot - NYPOST.com
Yeah women in America can wear what ever they want.
She would have been more respected for her intelligence had she worn a hajib.
who appears to be conservatively(i.e. modestly) dressed was fired from a bank, she claims, because she was making the male employees uncomfortable. She is wearing clothing that is modest by today's standards. No hajib, no burqua, but still told she too sexy to work in a bank and must dress down in order to keep her job.
Read more: Debrahlee Lorenzana sues Citibank saying she was fired from Citibank for being too hot - NYPOST.com
Yeah women in America can wear what ever they want.
She would have been more respected for her intelligence had she worn a hajib.
What people find to be sexual or non-sexual is highly influenced by culture conditioning. For instance, at one time and place in human history, a woman's ankle was considered to be very sexually exciting. Breasts have not always been considered very attractive. In many cultures, they just hang out and nobody thinks anything of it.
Arms are the same. If you grow up being told that arms are sexy, then you will find arms to be sexy.
This woman
who appears to be conservatively(i.e. modestly) dressed was fired from a bank, she claims, because she was making the male employees uncomfortable. She is wearing clothing that is modest by today's standards. No hajib, no burqua, but still told she too sexy to work in a bank and must dress down in order to keep her job.
Read more: Debrahlee Lorenzana sues Citibank saying she was fired from Citibank for being too hot - NYPOST.com
Yeah women in America can wear what ever they want.
She would have been more respected for her intelligence had she worn a hajib.
That is standard dress in most work places. I'm going to assume something else is behind it, or that she wore less appropriate clothing on other days, or even behaved inappropriately. There's no way that she was fired for wearing an outfit like that. No way.
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
At the time, there was talk that she was gaining the attention of the male clients that were coming into the bank leaving the other tellers sitting around doing nothing.
I don't recall hearing if it actually made it to court or if they settled. But it was a big to-do here.
I don't recall hearing if it actually made it to court or if they settled. But it was a big to-do here.
Starsoul
Truth
Thats truly admirablebut we are not all overwhelmed by it. We get terribly annoyed and incensed at it, yes. But we dont have to follow in its footsteps... we can go against the grain and wear clothing which are not sexually appealing
The problem at large remaining with those minds who feel forced by the norms of the society to act exactly upon what the media feeds them. It is not easy to break those chains with the current trends that are prevalent, specially those who can't yet think for themselves, and that can include large numbers of impressionable minds of young age.
SLAMH
Active Member
I pretty much agree with this, it doesn't make any sense. All the women dress like this in work places and I have never heard that one was fired for she was too HOT!!!!.
SLAMH
Active Member
I found two verses,
the first one,
024.031
YUSUFALI: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
and the second one,
033.059
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
I found it in the website,
CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts
However, I find the verses to some extent to be translated inaccurately.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
cheers for that. Just reading these doesnt give me the impression that arms must be covered... i guess the degree of coverage is a cultural thing . Are these the only two verses discussing dress in the entire Quran?
Also, as a muslim, how does this translate in practice? 'not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children'