How can a Muslim woman consider it Honorable to wear the headscarf?

[Bismillah]

You look at me and call me oppressed,
Simply because of the way I'm dressed,
You know me not for what is inside,
You judge the clothing I wear with pride,
My body is not for your eyes to hold,
You must speak to my mind, not my feminine mould,
I'm an individual. I'm no man's slave,
It's Allah's pleasure that I only crave,
I have a voice so I will be heard,
For in my heart I carry His word,
"O ye women, wrap close your cloak,
So you won't be bothered by ignorant folk".
Man doesn't tell me to dress this way,
It's law from God that I obey,
Oppressed is something I'm truly not,
For liberation is what I've got,
It was given to me many years ago,
With the right to prosper, the right to grow,
I can climb mountains or cross the seas,
Expand my mind in all degrees,
For God Himself gave us liberty,
When He sent Islam, to you and me !


-Anonymous

 

[Madhuri]

I understand social barriers and the cultural differences between the sexes as it applys to the dress code.

let me tell you this, women fought for the right to be free and have freedom of choice. You have that freedom these oppresed women do not have.

you may be tied to a cultural dress code but your not forced to it, or be beat and or killed because on a certain day you freely choose to do what you want with the freedom you have.

You have brought in seperate issues that does not belong here, by doing so it is very close to you saying women should all be forced to dress modestly and those that want to express themselves cannot because of how it effects the less desirable.

I know what your trying to say but it comes down to in the end freedom and the lack of it.

if you dont have freedom you are oppressed

Women fought for equal rights. Their campaign had nothing to do with wanting to be an objectified sex symbol.

Changing culture doesn't equal removing freedom. Before mini skirts were in fashion, women were not beaten or killed for wearing them. The problem was social pressure, stigma, being ridiculed and possibly becoming an outcast.
But you know what? The same happens now. People define us by how we dress still. There are things I would refuse to wear because of how people would start reacting to me, treating me, laughing at me. I might be 'free' to dress how I like, but so is a woman who decides to wear a bikini on a beach where the norm is full body swim suits.

I'm talking about changing norms. Not instilling laws that physically punish people.

We don't have freedom now, outhouse. We are oppressed.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

As a woman in western society, I feel oppressed. Look up Social Oppression.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

You look at me and call me oppressed,
Simply because of the way I'm dressed,
You know me not for what is inside,
You judge the clothing I wear with pride,
My body is not for your eyes to hold,
You must speak to my mind, not my feminine mould,
I'm an individual. I'm no man's slave,
It's Allah's pleasure that I only crave,
I have a voice so I will be heard,
For in my heart I carry His word,
"O ye women, wrap close your cloak,
So you won't be bothered by ignorant folk".
Man doesn't tell me to dress this way,
It's law from God that I obey,
Oppressed is something I'm truly not,
For liberation is what I've got,
It was given to me many years ago,
With the right to prosper, the right to grow,
I can climb mountains or cross the seas,
Expand my mind in all degrees,
For God Himself gave us liberty,
When He sent Islam, to you and me !


-Anonymous

May ALlah reward you immensly Ameen

 

[Bismillah]

May ALlah reward you immensly Ameen

I'm just copying pasting, not the original author

 

[Madhuri]

Actually, there are many studies that report women have as many affairs as men do. It's hard to determine, given the inherent secrecy (to quote one of the studies). Here are just two Google results:

Think men are the unfaithful sex? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they're just better at lying about it | Mail Online

Infidelity Statistics

This just shows me how damaged our society is. Doesn't this strike you as being extremely messed up, when both sexes are having secret affairs all over the place? It would be more honourable if they were doing so openly instead of living in lies, lacking trust, breaking hearts. It is truly shameful, and it wonderfully reflects the aspects of society that I am challenging in my latest posts. We are a sex obsessed, superficial culture that objectifies people to an extreme.

This is not freedom. It was not freedom when I was a 13 year old walking down the road and had much older men whistling and calling at me from their cars. It was not freedom when my girlfriends actually felt flattered by this. It is not freedom when a naive girl gives herself up to a man easily, thinking she is in love, and then is quickly dumped only to be ridiculed or bragged about to the man's friends. It is not freedom when she is so damaged that this experience leads her to expect this behaviour, and mirror it.

 

[outhouse]

Women fought for equal rights. Their campaign had nothing to do with wanting to be an objectified sex symbol.

Changing culture doesn't equal removing freedom. Before mini skirts were in fashion, women were not beaten or killed for wearing them. The problem was social pressure, stigma, being ridiculed and possibly becoming an outcast.
But you know what? The same happens now. People define us by how we dress still. There are things I would refuse to wear because of how people would start reacting to me, treating me, laughing at me. I might be 'free' to dress how I like, but so is a woman who decides to wear a bikini on a beach where the norm is full body swim suits.

I'm talking about changing norms. Not instilling laws that physically punish people.

We don't have freedom now, outhouse. We are oppressed.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

As a woman in western society, I feel oppressed. Look up Social Oppression.

so we should take away freedom, make a cultural law that all women follow a dresss code and hide there hair or identity all together?

do you think that will change your life for the better.

 

[Madhuri]

so we should take away freedom, make a cultural law that all women follow a dresss code and hide there hair or identity all together?

do you think that will change your life for the better.

I don't think you read or understood my post thoroughly.

 

[Katzpur]

so we should take away freedom, make a cultural law that all women follow a dresss code and hide there hair or identity all together?

do you think that will change your life for the better.

Honestly, how in the world did you get that out of Madhuri's post? Were you intentionally trying to misread it?

 

[Badran]

so we should take away freedom, make a cultural law that all women follow a dresss code and hide there hair or identity all together?

do you think that will change your life for the better.

There already is a cultural dress code, just a different one. Any woman who is pressured into following it is not free, thats the point. You're assuming that any women would naturally (if free to choose), would choose to dress revealingly, and if not free, would dress less revealingly. Or at least this is the only rational i could find for you to be associating dressing revealingly with freedom.

Freedom has nothing to do with what kind of dress you wear, just why you wear it.

 

[outhouse]

i can drive 15 minutes away go down to a mall.

I can ask every woman in the mall if she feels oppressed or forced to dress they way they are with the clothes they are wearing. I will get laughed at and I will not get a yes out of any of them.

they are there picking out what clothes they want to wear.

I see the majority with smiles on there faces and they look happy and content. Maybe because they are not being forced or oppressed or punished.

nobody said freedom is perfect, but its sure better then being brutally forced

 

[Badran]

i can drive 15 minutes away go down to a mall.

I can ask every woman in the mall if she feels oppressed or forced to dress they way they are with the clothes they are wearing. I will get laughed at and I will not get a yes out of any of them.

They're certainly not forced, but for oppressed thats a different story, as Madhuri has explained very well. I do agree that most of these women won't say they're oppressed (some will however in my opinion), but if you do the same experiment with women wearing hijab in your country, you'd get pretty much the same results. (With the possible exception of one or two who might say they have been forced by their parents to wear hijab when they were young, and that is due to this being associated with religion, unlike the other case where its only culture).

they are there picking out what clothes they want to wear.

I see the majority with smiles on there faces and they look happy and content. Maybe because they are not being forced or oppressed or punished.

The same applies to muslim women.

nobody said freedom is perfect, but its sure better then being brutally forced

Of course freedom is better than being brutally forced, who said otherwise?

 

[outhouse]

They're certainly not forced, but for oppressed thats a different story, as Madhuri has explained very well. I do agree that most of these women won't say they're oppressed (some will however in my opinion), but if you do the same experiment with women wearing hijab in your country, you'd get pretty much the same results. (With the possible exception of one or two who might say they have been forced by their parents to wear hijab when they were young, and that is due to this being associated with religion, unlike the other case where its only culture).

The same applies to muslim women.

Of course freedom is better than being brutally forced, who said otherwise?

it looks like were are in agreement

I do think the so called oppressed women here will still feel that way no matter the situation though

 

[Madhuri]

i can drive 15 minutes away go down to a mall.

I can ask every woman in the mall if she feels oppressed or forced to dress they way they are with the clothes they are wearing. I will get laughed at and I will not get a yes out of any of them.

they are there picking out what clothes they want to wear.

I see the majority with smiles on there faces and they look happy and content. Maybe because they are not being forced or oppressed or punished.

nobody said freedom is perfect, but its sure better then being brutally forced

You could walk down the street in a Muslim neighbourhood and ask every single woman if she feels oppressed or forced to dress the way they are and with the clothes they are wearing. You will get laughed at and you will not get a yes out of any of them.

They are wearing the clothed they want to wear.

You will see the majority with smiles on their faces and they look happy and content.

Most oppressed people don't think that they are oppressed. Most women who were not allowed in the workforce but had gender specific roles in the home in our own countries did not think that they were oppressed. The idea of them going to work was simply ludicrous.

It takes some education and analysis of society, sociology, psychology to see through the illusions of culturally shaped attitudes and behaviour to notice the oppression.

You know, there was an instance in high school when some of my girlfriends were thinking about going to a mall and making a big protest about women's fashion and female objectification. But that never happened, they have probably forgotten about it. We all do when we conform to the norm. If you asked those girls now if they felt oppressed, they'd say no, of course not. But if you reminded them of that time when they were thinking of protesting and remind them of the times they felt disempowered and objectified, they'd come back to that realisation. And then the next week, they'd probably forget again.

 

[beenie]

You could walk down the street in a Muslim neighbourhood and ask every single woman if she feels oppressed or forced to dress the way they are and with the clothes they are wearing. You will get laughed at and you will not get a yes out of any of them.

They are wearing the clothed they want to wear.

You will see the majority with smiles on their faces and they look happy and content.

Most oppressed people don't think that they are oppressed. Most women who were not allowed in the workforce but had gender specific roles in the home in our own countries did not think that they were oppressed. The idea of them going to work was simply ludicrous.

It takes some education and analysis of society, sociology, psychology to see through the illusions of culturally shaped attitudes and behaviour to notice the oppression.

You know, there was an instance in high school when some of my girlfriends were thinking about going to a mall and making a big protest about women's fashion and female objectification. But that never happened, they have probably forgotten about it. We all do when we conform to the norm. If you asked those girls now if they felt oppressed, they'd say no, of course not. But if you reminded them of that time when they were thinking of protesting and remind them of the times they felt disempowered and objectified, they'd come back to that realisation. And then the next week, they'd probably forget again.

Madhuri, will you please stop making so much sense? i kid, i kid.

outhouse, you will be hard-pressed to find women in any situation (even abusive ones) admit that they are oppressed. either they realize it and don't want to admit it or they aren't even aware.

 

[Starsoul]

A good Comparison of Views.

[youtube]9UIwLCTAmtM[/youtube]
YouTube - Re: Re: LIES ABOUT ISLAM

 

[Sahar]

"Freedom is doing the right thing without fearing people."
"But fashions that are designed and promoted by male dominated corporations set you free?! Men have no control on exposing women and using them as a commodity! Give me a break!!"
"Doesn't TV, movies and magazines tell you what to wear and how to be attractive? Isn't that control?! Pressuring you to wear what they want you to wear..."
"Don't you see, Hijab is a threat to consumerism. Women spend billions of dollars to look skinny and live by standards of fashion designed by men. And then here is Islam; trash all that nonsense and focus on your soul, don't worry about what men think of your appearance."

Great!

 

[gnostic]

"Freedom is doing the right thing without fearing people."
"But fashions that are designed and promoted by male dominated corporations set you free?! Men have no control on exposing women and using them as a commodity! Give me a break!!"
"Doesn't TV, movies and magazines tell you what to wear and how to be attractive? Isn't that control?! Pressuring you to wear what they want you to wear..."
"Don't you see, Hijab is a threat to consumerism. Women spend billions of dollars to look skinny and live by standards of fashion designed by men. And then here is Islam; trash all that nonsense and focus on your soul, don't worry about what men think of your appearance."

Great!

And you don't think religion, like Islam, don't put pressure on people what to think, how they eat, pray and dress?

And you have far more males in powers - politically, militarily and religiously - to dictate policies. Islam, and Islamic culture were built upon patriarchal system. So how is this different from the West, I'd ask you?

Sure, the media in the West is largely controlled by men. But aren't Muslim-dominant countries have media controlled by men, too? How many do you think it is own by women in a Muslim country? And don't they (Muslim-runned media) tell you how you should behave and how to dress?

Do you think Islamic society not dominated by men? Are they are not the ones telling how you should dress or how you should behave?

I am trying to see your point, but it doesn't seem any different.

 

[Harmonious]

And you don't think religion, like Islam, don't put pressure on people what to think, how they eat, pray and dress?

And you have far more males in powers - politically, militarily and religiously - to dictate policies. Islam, and Islamic culture were built upon patriarchal system. So how is this different from the West, I'd ask you?

Sure, the media in the West is largely controlled by men. But aren't Muslim-dominant countries have media controlled by men, too? How many do you think it is own by women in a Muslim country? And don't tell you how you should behave and how to dress?

Do you think Islamic society not dominated by men? Are they are not the ones telling how you should dress or how you should behave?

I am trying to see your point, but it doesn't seem any different.

The point is that proud Muslim women wear the Hijab because they feel it is an honor to do so.

The idea is, there are all kinds of societal pressures that one has. And the Muslim women who have weighed in here expressed that they feel free from the pressures of feeling like a piece of meat and have the freedom to focus on learning, growing, and becoming more spiritual and closer to God.

Now, it is also true that women who don't feel the same have a completely different attitude about the matter. But this is something that I see.

The gracious women here have expressed that they are proud to choose WHICH pressure they choose to deal with, and elevating their soul, and ignoring burgeoning consumerism is the way they choose to go.

 

[Sahar]

And you don't think religion, like Islam, don't put pressure on people what to think, how they eat, pray and dress?

And you have far more males in powers - politically, militarily and religiously - to dictate policies. Islam, and Islamic culture were built upon patriarchal system. So how is this different from the West, I'd ask you?

Sure, the media in the West is largely controlled by men. But aren't Muslim-dominant countries have media controlled by men, too? How many do you think it is own by women in a Muslim country? And don't tell you how you should behave and how to dress?

Do you think Islamic society not dominated by men? Are they are not the ones telling how you should dress or how you should behave?

I am trying to see your point, but it doesn't seem any different.

The media is controlled by men, true and the media where I live is secular and liberal...direct women and men to consumerism and to unIslamic values. In short, the media here follows the track of the Western media.

And you don't think religion, like Islam, don't put pressure on people what to think, how they eat, pray and dress?

Well, if you mean our will to be closer to God and our love to Him motivate us to obey him, true. This runs equally on men and women. Who told me to be modest is my Creator. Modesty raise us spiritually, fashion designers and entertainment industries promote animalism values. Two different paths.

N.B: the quotes in my post were taken from that video that Starsoul posted. I liked it much.

 

[gnostic]

The point is that proud Muslim women wear the Hijab because they feel it is an honor to do so.

The idea is, there are all kinds of societal pressures that one has. And the Muslim women who have weighed in here expressed that they feel free from the pressures of feeling like a piece of meat and have the freedom to focus on learning, growing, and becoming more spiritual and closer to God.

Now, it is also true that women who don't feel the same have a completely different attitude about the matter. But this is something that I see.

The gracious women here have expressed that they are proud to choose WHICH pressure they choose to deal with, and elevating their soul, and ignoring burgeoning consumerism is the way they choose to go.

I see that consumerism can dictate what people wear, what they called "fashion" or "taste", and I see the pressures that can ensue from the bombardment of these commercials.

But I don't see how it is any different from Muslim-run media. There are Islamic media, government and community dictating what people believe in, how to behave, eat and dress. Then there's pressures placed by clerics and imams. And let's not forget customs. All of which, are controlled by men.

The pressures are there.

I believed that many Muslim women do dress how they like, including members here, without external pressures. I don't doubt that.

But I also don't doubt that there are external forces out there too, telling them what they should wear or bear the consequences of not complying. And these pressure come from their religious leaders as much as they come their government.

If they accept one pressure over another, then I don't see how what they perceive religious custom or religious sanctioned law being any different from Western media which they perceive as evil.

All they are choosing is the lesser of the two evils.