How can a Muslim woman consider it Honorable to wear the headscarf?

[outhouse]

Now this is a beautiful thing, freedom.

If you cannot handle freedom I understand.

Moderator cut: image removed

does this freedom bother people??

 

[SLAMH]

The difference, and what i think is worse for muslim women, is that you actually need to cover every inch of yourself so as to not be viewed as 'alluring' ... I dont understand how a womans arm for instance can be viewed as sexy but that seems to by the psychology among muslim men.

This has nothing to do with Muslim Men. I'm Muslim and I really don't bother if the women around me are wearing Hijab or not. Even if they were naked, I would not care.

Again, I think this has to do with the religion itself, not with the Muslim men. At the end of the day, Hijab will not change anything, the change must come from inside, within yourself.

It is like prayer or Zaka (giving for charity), both have no meaning if one doesn't know what is the significance beyond them and for what reasons he/she must and should do them.

 

[Pegg]

She seems nice to me.

I live in California, we get that all the time. Im a guy and I think Jessica is A+

ah thats interesting.

I actually posted these photos because the woman is wearing clothes... you however immediately show that you are thinking of the woman and not the clothes at all.

And this is what perversion is all about...its about looking at a woman sexually rather then simply as a woman. Its a man thing i guess. jessica Alba will never be free when that is how she is being viewed.

 

[Bismillah]

What I don't understand is why some religions, communities, and even government, need to enforce or pressure women into wearing them. The choice of wearing them should be the free choice for every individual women, not the government, not the community, not the religion and not the husband or male family member (eg father, brother, uncle, etc). Not even God should decide what a person wear. Any group or law (whether they be religious or secular) or husband (or father) shouldn't decide for the women.

Gnostic: I've heard many Imams speak on the subject and the consensus is clear to me.

He has emphasized that men tend to look to much at the superficial aspects of religion (i.e Women A doesn't wear an Hijab) and they emphasize that instead of alienating and angering these women, who happen to make up a large portion of the Muslim community in America, we should encourage them to come to the mosque (to prevent the societal norm of Friday Mosque prayers of being something akin to guys night out) and explore their faith.

As they say, as a person becomes closer to God everything else comes naturally. The mentality of the hijab, to dress modestly they emphasize is the result of a person strengthening their faith.

 

[Bismillah]

does this freedom bother people??

You might be one of the most childish posters I've come across these forums.

 

[Pegg]

This has nothing to do with Muslim Men. I'm Muslim and I really don't bother if the women around me are wearing Hijab or not. Even if they were naked, I would not care.

Again, I think this has to do with the religion itself, not with the Muslim men. At the end of the day, Hijab will not change anything, the change must come from inside, within yourself.

thats exactly right

I also think that the way the religious leaders of Islam interpret the Quran has a lot to do with how muslims think. One of the clerics here in australia actually preaches that women who do not cover themselves are 'uncovered meat'...thats what he preaches in his mosque. I can only go by my instincts on this, but if a man is constantly being told that women are 'meat', then his attitude toward her will that she is 'meat'

Now for that cleric to be preaching that to hundreds of men in a mosque is frightening to a woman...especially in a country where the dress code is the opposite to what muslims are used to.

How much better would it be for him to help men get out of such a mindset rather then keep them thinking about women in such ways.

 

[SLAMH]

I want to know what the Quran teaches men when it comes to how they 'view' women

Does the Quran put any responsibility on the man for the way he views a woman.

Does the quran put any responsibility upon the man in a similar way?

At the moment, I don't remember any sacred text to refer to as I'm explaining. Nevertheless, I can still explain because this how I raised and this what I have been taught. First, you aren't allowed to look at women with lust intention, and even if she was wearing provocative clothes, then I have to lower my gaze and not stare at her.

Nevertheless, for the situation you described I would not be comfortable sitting with woman that breastfeed her baby in my company. This has nothing to do me being sexually attracted to her, but this has to do with the honor of mine and at the same time I feel that will be kind of disrespecting to her.

 

[SLAMH]

thats exactly right

Now for that cleric to be preaching that to hundreds of men in a mosque is frightening to a woman...especially in a country where the dress code is the opposite to what muslims are used to.

How much better would it be for him to help men get out of such a mindset rather then keep them thinking about women in such ways.

True, i remember once that one of those clerics preaches that women who do not wear Hijab are available and much easier for men to approach them. I don't know what kind of qualitative thinking is this. I had many mates of mine in school whom weren't Muslim and not wearing Hijab, but they were just polite, respectful and not available as well.

Anyway, I'm telling you this this kind of act has nothing to do with Islam in general.

 

[Badran]

Now this is a beautiful thing, freedom.

If you cannot handle freedom I understand.

Isn't freedom, the ability to do, say and think what one wants, without external factors affecting that?

How is choosing to dress revealingly any more free than any other choice of dress? Isn't it all about one's reasons for dressing as they do (which ever way that is)?

 

[Pegg]

At the moment, I don't remember any sacred text to refer to as I'm explaining. Nevertheless, I can still explain because this how I raised and this what I have been taught. First, you aren't allowed to look at women with lust intention, and even if she was wearing provocative clothes, then I have to lower my gaze and not stare at her.

yeah i have heard this too. so that makes me wonder why it is necessary for a woman to completely cover every inch of her body such as her arms. if men know not to look at woman in such a way, why should she be held responsible if he does so.

Nevertheless, for the situation you described I would not be comfortable sitting with woman that breastfeed her baby in my company. This has nothing to do me being sexually attracted to her, but this has to do with the honor of mine and at the same time I feel that will be kind of disrespecting to her.

and to be honest, if i was with someone who indicated that they were not comfortable with me breastfeeding, then i wouldnt do it in front of them.

For example, recently my husband and i were at a wedding and were sitting at a table with several others, some couples and a few single men and women. My baby needed feeding and i asked everyone if it was alright by them if i fed her at the table and they all said it was fine and encouraged me to do so.... so i didnt feel awkward about it and nor did they. If one of them did say no, then i would not have fed her at the table though... but it kind of just shows that there is not such an issue in the west with a woman showing her body and im guessing its because the idea that a woman must hide herself has been gone for a very long time. To westerners, its just a body...its not considered to be a sexual body in all circumstances.

 

[Pegg]

True, i remember once that one of those clerics preaches that women who do not wear Hijab are available and much easier for men to approach them.

Yes i find that idea repulsive. We wear wedding rings as a sign that we are married. If you are talking to a woman who is without a wedding or engagement ring on her finger, then you can assume she is single and 'may' be interested but certainly not if someone is wearing a wedding or engagement ring. It helps to have an understanding of each others customs.

Anyway, I'm telling you this this kind of act has nothing to do with Islam in general.

its okay, i do believe that....hence why i keep asking where in the quran does it state these things. The cleric i mentioned earlier had to admit that it was his own personal opinion because he got a lot of criticism for his comments.

what he did was not different to a christian church leader who preaches some message not found in the bible...they should not be in such a position if they do not respect the books they are teaching. God must cringe when he hears what some of them come out with.

 

[dust1n]

she is oppressed, she just doesn't realize it. oppression takes on many forms, and if you think for one second that women dressing in next to nothing is for "women's liberation" you are delusional. the same goes for the other extreme. we agree on one thing: neither extreme is normal or justifiable, and again, freedom will come when women TRULY can dress however SHE pleases.

I don't think anyone here can assert that that model is oppressed. No one here knows her situation. She could very well be oppressed; possibility impoverish and forced to choose a career in modeling? :sarcastic She could also be not oppressed. Everyone is oppressed by many things at varying degrees; that doesn't necessarily mean this woman does choose of her own reasoning and enjoyment to pose in front of a camera? Even if she was a nude and men used that image to.. well, ya know.. that doesn't mean the woman is any more oppressed. Both of those extremes are justifiable when the woman truly can dress however she pleases, whether that's a g-string or a burka.

 

[SLAMH]

yeah i have heard this too. so that makes me wonder why it is necessary for a woman to completely cover every inch of her body such as her arms. if men know not to look at woman in such a way, why should she be held responsible if he does so.

Take this analogy,

In chemical experiment everyone will have to wear safety glasses when there is dangerous experiment to protect the eyes. However, these experiments can be done without safety goggles. The safety goggles won't affect the procedure of the whole experiment nor it will change the result of it theoretically.

You can look at the Hijab as thing that it is used for protection and to confirm the meaning of modesty, nevertheless it is not a magical scarf that will turn the men to righteous figures once women wear it.

 

[outhouse]

she is oppressed

 

[outhouse]

I have no problem with the scarf.

the problem lies with the beatings of the women who get caught not wearing them.

You have allot of nerve talking of our freedom oppressing women when you force a dress code on your women.

This woman is not oppressed, and it would be a crime to cover up hair that nice.

do your men act like animals around beauty so it must be hidden??? Ya I know they want to be modest. But not all. Force is bad it is a loss of freedom and I feel sorry for you.

she is not oppressed

 

[Pegg]

nevertheless it is not a magical scarf that will turn the men to righteous figures once women wear it.

and this is precisely why the christian church did not impose the wearing of special items... if Gods standards are not in the heart of a person, then there is nothing that can be worn, nothing that can be said, nothing that can be done to make people live in accord with him.

this is why the christian church did not impose dietary laws or any other requirements such as wearing things to prevent sin from occurring... its because laws dont make people righteous... the mosaic laws which Mohammad reconfirmed for his people were unable to stop sin from occurring which is also why the christians discouraged people trying to live by it

Its as Jesus said:

Matthew 15:11-18 “Not what enters into his mouth defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of his mouth that defiles a man.” Jesus then explained: “The things proceeding out of the mouth come out of the heart, and those things defile a man. For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies. These are the things defiling a man"

 

[gnostic]

She seems nice to me.

I live in California, we get that all the time. Im a guy and I think Jessica is A+

Me too. She is beautiful.

I don't see why Jessica have to look ugly if she doesn't have to.

Jessica looks great in a bikini, but she looks just as good in shirt and jeans, or dress/skirt, or even wearing jumper or sweater.

 

[Pegg]

Me too. She is beautiful.

I don't see why Jessica have to look ugly if she doesn't have to.

Jessica looks great in a bikini, but she looks just as good in shirt and jeans, or dress/skirt, or even wearing jumper or sweater.

its much nicer to see her dressed in regular clothes.

 

[gnostic]

Gnostic: I've heard many Imams speak on the subject and the consensus is clear to me.

He has emphasized that men tend to look to much at the superficial aspects of religion (i.e Women A doesn't wear an Hijab) and they emphasize that instead of alienating and angering these women, who happen to make up a large portion of the Muslim community in America, we should encourage them to come to the mosque (to prevent the societal norm of Friday Mosque prayers of being something akin to guys night out) and explore their faith.

As they say, as a person becomes closer to God everything else comes naturally. The mentality of the hijab, to dress modestly they emphasize is the result of a person strengthening their faith.

If a woman, and I mean any woman, wants to wear short-sleeve shirt or top, or skirt or shorts, then that's the choice of the woman. If she wear something on her head, like a hat, baseball cap, or headscarf, then that's her choice too. As long as she is comfortable what she wearing them, then we should support her, not berate her or punish her.

If a Muslim woman want to wear hijab or to not wear it, then, that's her choice. It is her choice, not yours, not her husband, not the law (although, I think they shouldn't cover their faces with veils, for security reason, like the airport as an example), not the government, not the imam, and not your religion.

If they (Muslim women) want to wear the hijab, or even the full headdress that cover their faces too, for religious or for cultural reason, then by all mean, they can wear them, especially if their choice was not force upon them.

What I don't understand is the society, especially one dominated by religions, want to punish a person if she wear the hijab or not, like last year (or the year before, don't remember when), when the Iranian government, arrested and punished women for not wearing them....or wearing ones, but not the right ones. That's when I get angry with government and religious leaders. These people are acting like tyrants.

If Western women wants to wear something they are comfortable with what they wear than Muslims shouldn't try to dictate what Western women wear. Western people shouldn't dictate what Muslim women wants to wear. But we all should oppose people who try to force women to wear anything because of religious reasons, like these so-called (Iranian) "fashion police".

 

[gnostic]

its much nicer to see her dressed in regular clothes.

Sure. But it's not like that she's always in a bikini, pegg. She dress normally, like any woman, when she goes out in public, unless she's at the beach or the pool, or in a movie where she at the beach.

The picture of her in bikini is obviously promotion for either a movie, or she is modelling for swimwear. There's nothing wrong with that. It is part of her job. I have also seen her modelling in more modest outfit than the bikini.

I see no reason why she should have to look ugly for the sake of modesty.