How can a Muslim woman consider it Honorable to wear the headscarf?

[outhouse]

there are men that force women to dress sexy?

I think you are confusing suggestion with force, your reply really doesnt merit a responce.

if a man forces a woman here he will go to jail end of story, unlike many muslim nations we have laws to protect women from force.

If the women does not leave then she chooses to stay at her free will and it is no longer force but choice.

trophy wife"?

i have one

prostitutes are well-dressed

by choice to make money

he WANTS her

like most of your emotional post you confuse want and force.

women are not oppressed into dressing sexy here. they do it because it makes them feel good.

This is a night and day difference from muslims killing or punishing someone for a dress code violation because they want free will and not forced belief.

no comparison at all.

 

[Pegg]

however, i ask this: if Muslim women are forced to wear the headscarf, then why on EARTH are so many Muslim women wearing the headscarf in the US, UK, Australia, etc. where they are clearly in the minority? why have so many women kept their headscarves on in Turkey when the government has all but banned it? i don't see the men taking to the streets to allow women to wear it, IT'S THE WOMEN. for them, it brings honor to THEM. why is this so hard to accept?

im not sure that this is totally correct.

before the 80's, the majority of muslim women in australia did not wear the headscarves at all... but then an Ayatollah came out to australia and demanded that all muslim women wear them. So its only been for the past 30 years that they have been worn at all in this country.

 

[Rakhel]

I think you are confusing suggestion with force, your reply really doesnt merit a responce.

if a man forces a woman here he will go to jail end of story, unlike many muslim nations we have laws to protect women from force.

If the women does not leave then she chooses to stay at her free will and it is no longer force but choice.

I have a problem with this statement in that I don't think you truly understand the nature of what you are saying.

There is no point blank "you are going to jail" for abuse. There is no "if you stay, it is no longer force"

Perhaps you need to read more on abusive relationships before making comments such as these.

 

[beenie]

I have a problem with this statement in that I don't think you truly understand the nature of what you are saying.

There is no point blank "you are going to jail" for abuse. There is no "if you stay, it is no longer force"

Perhaps you need to read more on abusive relationships before making comments such as these.

agree. i'm not sure outhouse is making any valid points...at all.

 

[beenie]

I think you are confusing suggestion with force, your reply really doesnt merit a responce.

if a man forces a woman here he will go to jail end of story, unlike many muslim nations we have laws to protect women from force.

If the women does not leave then she chooses to stay at her free will and it is no longer force but choice.

i have one

by choice to make money

like most of your emotional post you confuse want and force.

women are not oppressed into dressing sexy here. they do it because it makes them feel good.

This is a night and day difference from muslims killing or punishing someone for a dress code violation because they want free will and not forced belief.

no comparison at all.

either you live in a bubble and are very naive or you are delusional.

 

[outhouse]

I have a problem with this statement in that I don't think you truly understand the nature of what you are saying.

There is no point blank "you are going to jail" for abuse. There is no "if you stay, it is no longer force"

Perhaps you need to read more on abusive relationships before making comments such as these.

baloney LOL here in the USA I do not see women forced to do anything. Im not saying there is no abuse at all. there however is not a problem or issue among americans forcing spouces to dress sexy. this is absurd like many of the other statements made.

we have freedon here, something many other countries will only dream about. FREEDOM OF RELIGION and freedom to dress how you want. We will not murder anyone for blasphemy like barbarians.

If you dont like freedom there are many OTHER places that would love your company.

pick on freedom all you like, ill enjoy mine

if you want to start an abuse thread thats fine, forcing a dress code on women is abuse

I have muslim family, they came here to get away from the barbaric practices in there country and enjoy the freedom here. They would never go back.

keep your abusive dress code, one thing is certain. It wont be forced here unless your own kind illegally force you

 

[Gaura Priya]

baloney LOL here in the USA I do not see women forced to do anything. Im not saying there is no abuse at all. there however is not a problem or issue amoung americans forcing spouces to dress sexy. this is absurd like many ofthe other statements made.

we have freedon here, something many other countries will only dream about. FREEDOM OF RELIGION and freedom to dress how you want.

If you dont like freedom there are many OTHER places that would love your company.

pick on freedom all you like, ill enjoy mine

Muslims enjoy much more freedom and acceptance in Canada than they do in the United States, that's for sure. Women are as free to cover their heads or not if they want to (except in Quebec, where there is controversy). I see even young Sikh girls wearing hankerchiefs when they go to school and whatnot, along Muslimahs wearing headscarves.

Although when speaking of American religious 'hijab' there is such thing as Christian modesty for women, a dress code that encourages modest or plain clothing, and even Christians who do take the veil, such as your anabaptists (Amish, Brethren, Mennonite, etc.), traditional Catholics, Orthodox, old-school Pentecostals, and others. Even the Seventh Day Adventist Church looks down upon wearing adornments and jewellery.

 

[Pegg]

I think you are confusing suggestion with force, your reply really doesnt merit a responce.

if a man forces a woman here he will go to jail end of story, unlike many muslim nations we have laws to protect women from force.

how about all those women who dont want to be undressed who are subjected to undressed women everywhere they turn? like on commercials, billboards, magazines, advertising...everywhere we look we are subjected to nudity

we dont get a choice in that and its most unpleasant.

 

[SLAMH]

theres more to it then that and you know it.

kind of a cop out in my opinion.

Sorry, but I wasn't talking about you. I was just giving an opinion on the both statements.

Regards.

 

[Sunstone]

how about all those women who dont want to be undressed who are subjected to undressed women everywhere they turn? like on commercials, billboards, magazines, advertising...everywhere we look we are subjected to nudity

we dont get a choice in that and its most unpleasant.

This is confusing. Are you saying you lack the will to keep your clothes on if other people are shown with theirs off? I'm not sure I'm following you at all here.

 

[Pegg]

This is confusing. Are you saying you lack the will to keep your clothes on if other people are shown with theirs off? I'm not sure I'm following you at all here.

ha, sheesh no. Not what i meant at all.

I've taken issue with outhouses argument that if women are not 'forced' to take their clothes off, then its ok for them to be naked under the guise of 'freedom'

its still not freedom even if he wants to call it that because those of us who do not want to see half naked females are not given the choice because we are forced to 'see it' everywhere.

 

[Rakhel]

baloney LOL here in the USA I do not see women forced to do anything. Im not saying there is no abuse at all. there however is not a problem or issue among americans forcing spouces to dress sexy. this is absurd like many of the other statements made.

we have freedon here, something many other countries will only dream about. FREEDOM OF RELIGION and freedom to dress how you want. We will not murder anyone for blasphemy like barbarians.

If you dont like freedom there are many OTHER places that would love your company.

pick on freedom all you like, ill enjoy mine

if you want to start an abuse thread thats fine, forcing a dress code on women is abuse

I have muslim family, they came here to get away from the barbaric practices in there country and enjoy the freedom here. They would never go back.

keep your abusive dress code, one thing is certain. It wont be forced here unless your own kind illegally force you

You are the one that brought up abuse. I am telling you that you don't understand the full nature of what abuse is. You are the one choosing not to see it. you are the one saying "That would never happen. Not in this country. NO, NO, NO No woman would stay with a may that 'suggests' she wear a dress 2 sizes too small."

"Suggesting" that a woman wear any type of clothing is not as benign as you want people to believe. IT can be a form of abuse. But you don't want to hear that.

 

[Falvlun]

"Suggesting" that a woman wear any type of clothing is not as benign as you want people to believe. IT can be a form of abuse. But you don't want to hear that.

Wait. So does that mean Allah is abusive for not only suggesting a particular dress code, but commanding it?

Sure, culture will influence what a woman wants to wear, what sort of clothing will make a woman feel "beautiful". But this will happen everywhere. Cultural preferences are a fact of culture. A woman could have perfect freedom-- ie, wearing exactly what she wanted with no outside input-- only if she grew up on a deserted island all by herself. Thus, it is sorta ridiculous to gripe that women don't have this perfect freedom, a state in which she has no outside input into what she wants to wear, since it is an essentially impossible state to acheive.

 

[Willamena]

Wait. So does that mean Allah is abusive for not only suggesting a particular dress code, but commanding it?

To some, his command gives them a choice. (Free will, and all that.)

Sure, culture will influence what a woman wants to wear, what sort of clothing will make a woman feel "beautiful". But this will happen everywhere. Cultural preferences are a fact of culture. A woman could have perfect freedom-- ie, wearing exactly what she wanted with no outside input-- only if she grew up on a deserted island all by herself. Thus, it is sorta ridiculous to gripe that women don't have this perfect freedom, a state in which she has no outside input into what she wants to wear, since it is an essentially impossible state to acheive.

To me, it's abuse when it satisfies the ego of the man (in the example above) at the expense of the ego of the woman. I don't think that can be applied to a cultural dress code.

 

[Rakhel]

This twisting of words is really idiotic and pointless to the argument. All I hear is :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: from the men.
I am wasting my breath.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Originally Posted by outhouse
LOL you all are funny

I guarantee you the blonde is not oppressed LOL pressed maybe but never ever oppressed.

She is free to do what she wants when she wants. It does not satisfy any desire of mine at all.

Its just a young blonde woman enjoying her beauty

the women here will be jealous so I dont expect a reasonable responce. A few are from a completely different culture and dont understand how natural that is here. There are nude beaches within 2 miles of my house. i can see all that I want if I choose. I have a healthy life and dont need to. It may not be legal but WE WONT kill or murder them for it LOL

FREEDOM, personal FREEDOM to do what you want. FREEDOM is the answer

I know which one I want to date

And we're the funny ones?? SubhannAllah

FREEDOM is the answer

I think you should think a bit about your own statements before applying them to others, go find out what FREEDOM is than we'll talk

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

This twisting of words is really idiotic and pointless to the argument. All I hear is :ignore: :ignore: :ignore: from the men.
I am wasting my breath.

Thats the problem, the day we'll have a discussion from women to women explaining how Hijab or being nude give us honor, than we won't be wasting our breaths, but when we have outhouse's kind of members dealing with the subject, telling us wonderful sentences such as /

I know which one I want to date

or

Women are jealous so I wont except any reasonable reply

Then and only then we would have a decent discussion, not including men so that everyone know that we dont care about what men think buut about how Hijab or being nude affect our OWN way of living and our personalities.

May Allah grant us patience.

On a side note: Since Im very used to Islamic forums , where we always have a private section where women can discuss private stuffs they dont want men to get included in , I always wished we could have on in here to discuss women-related threads from women to women with no men in it. I dont know if its even possible, maybe Ill start a poll about it Inshallah

 

[Falvlun]

To some, his command gives them a choice. (Free will, and all that.)

I agree, but my response was particularly directed at the idea that the merest suggestion of what a woman should wear is abusive. You can't have it both ways: either it's abusive to suggest clothing attire and Allah is therefore abusive, or it is not abusive to suggest clothing attire and Allah is not abusive by his request.

To me, it's abuse when it satisfies the ego of the man (in the example above) at the expense of the ego of the woman. I don't think that can be applied to a cultural dress code.

I think that criteria could just as easily be applied to a cultural dress code: it satisfies the ego of a man to have "his woman" be seen as a sex object, and it can satisfy the ego of a man to have "his woman" completely reserved for himself by being wrapped up. Either of these cultural conventions can be damaging to a woman's ego.

And I don't think suggesting a particular dress-- hey, honey, your back is really lovely, why don't you try on this backless dress?-- is necessarily abusive, even if the suggestion is to satisfy the man's ego.

 

[Willamena]

I agree, but my response was particularly directed at the idea that the merest suggestion of what a woman should wear is abusive. You can't have it both ways: either it's abusive to suggest clothing attire and Allah is therefore abusive, or it is not abusive to suggest clothing attire and Allah is not abusive by his request.

Her comment was generalized in context; your generalization draws it out of context (e.g. Allah).

I think that criteria could just as easily be applied to a cultural dress code: it satisfies the ego of a man to have "his woman" be seen as a sex object, and it can satisfy the ego of a man to have "his woman" completely reserved for himself by being wrapped up. Either of these cultural conventions can be damaging to a woman's ego.

And I don't think suggesting a particular dress-- hey, honey, your back is really lovely, why don't you try on this backless dress?-- is necessarily abusive, even if the suggestion is to satisfy the man's ego.

Women are as much a part of the culture as men. The culture stems from both genders.

 

[Rakhel]

I said "it can be", not "it is." It truly depends on the household the woman is in.