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How can other religions reconcile with Islam?

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
What is Islamic culture?
My culture as an American/Lithuanian?
My wife's culture as a Native Northern Cheyenne?
The culture of My friend in Minneapolis who is Somali?
The culture of My son in law who is a Bengali from Pakistan?
How about the culture of a very close friend in Fargo who is a refugee from Gaza?

We are all Muslims and each with very different and distinct cultures.

You are all freakish rarities in the Muslim world. Doesn't mean you are not Muslim, or that your experience doesn't matter. But forgive me if I get a detail wrong, but weren't you
a christian minister for most of your adult life, followed by decades of atheism, converting recently?

That is not being a part of the Muslim culture. You're a USonian and your culture is vastly different from Muslim culture. Being a Muslim believer doesn't mean that you are a cultural Muslim.
Tom
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
You are all freakish rarities in the Muslim world. Doesn't mean you are not Muslim, or that your experience doesn't matter. But forgive me if I get a detail wrong, but weren't you
a christian minister for most of your adult life, followed by decades of atheism, converting recently?

That is not being a part of the Muslim culture. You're a USonian and your culture is vastly different from Muslim culture. Being a Muslim believer doesn't mean that you are a cultural Muslim.
Tom

True I was a Christian minister for most of my life and later as an atheist for about 20 years.

But I have lived and traveled in the Muslim world and have never seen anything to identify as a universal Islamic culture.

It is true I do not have the cultural traditions of many Muslims, but like all Muslims I do my best to follow the same 5 Pillars, say the same prayers and face the same qiblah. I read the same Qur'an, in Arabic, which I find many Muslims can not do.

While my spoken Arabic is the Darija of Morocco and not understood by most Arabic speakers, the Tajweed of the Qur'an is easily understood by speakers of any Arab dialect.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Most of the people murdered by 'islamists' are muslim. I don't think reconciliation is required I think that this radical, insane, ideology for bufoons needs to be defeated as an ideology. Given the inherently vacuous nature of radical islamic ideology one would imagine that it should not be beyond the worlds intelligence agencies and propaganda machines
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
Most of the people murdered by 'islamists' are muslim. I don't think reconciliation is required I think that this radical, insane, ideology for bufoons needs to be defeated as an ideology. Given the inherently vacuous nature of radical islamic ideology one would imagine that it should not be beyond the worlds intelligence agencies and propaganda machines


True the vast majority killed by terrorists have been Muslims. The terrorists are very much our enemy and their goal does seem to be to destroy Islam.

I am still trying to figure out the word "Islamist" Islam is a verb and is the act of submitting to god. A person who does the act of Islam is called a Muslim.

I am not certain what is meant by Islamist
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
True I was a Christian minister for most of my life and later as an atheist for about 20 years

And I am talking about the culture a billion plus people live in, from Algeria to Afghanistan. Not rich white educated USonians, that is a culture that is extremely different.

I think the best thing that could happen to Muslims is to convert to Jewish style of separating belief from culture. Christians did it centuries ago. Imperfect as Christian culture is, it is a vast improvement over Muslim culture. A combination of Muslim restraint and discipline with Christian/secular vibrancy and tolerance and inovation would be stupendous for the human family IMHO.

Tom
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I do think Islam needs to reform itself and drag itself into the 21st century. All the mediaeval nonsense really needs to go.
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
And I am talking about the culture a billion plus people live in, from Algeria to Afghanistan. Not rich white educated USonians, that is a culture that is extremely different.

I think the best thing that could happen to Muslims is to convert to Jewish style of separating belief from culture. Christians did it centuries ago. Imperfect as Christian culture is, it is a vast improvement over Muslim culture. A combination of Muslim restraint and discipline with Christian/secular vibrancy and tolerance and inovation would be stupendous for the human family IMHO.

Tom

Less than 1/4 of the world's Muslims live from Algeria to Afghanistan. Nearly all Muslims are Asiatic. there are more Chinese Muslims than Arab Muslims.
The single most culture followed by Muslims would be Indonesian/Malaysian,
there are more "USonians" than the total Muslims in the 6 smallest Arab nations combined.

as for my culture, I was treated as a minority most of my life. While I do not have the strong oriental features as most of my relatives I do not identify as white and relate mostly to the Mongol heritage of my Tatar ancestry.

For the last quarter of my life I have preferred to associate with and live primarily among the Lakota.
this is the life style culture I live:

 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
as for my culture, I was treated as a minority most of my life. While I do not have the strong oriental features as most of my relatives I do not identify as white and relate mostly to the Mongol heritage of my Tatar ancestry.

For the last quarter of my life I have preferred to associate with and live primarily among the Lakota.

I'm coming to understand.

Never mind.

Tom
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
I do think Islam needs to reform itself and drag itself into the 21st century. All the mediaeval nonsense really needs to go.

Have to treat each of the 49 Muslim Majority nations separately.

However about 3/4 of the worlds Muslims live in just 5 Nations, and are a minority in 2 of them
Most of the world's Muslims can be found in:
Indonesia
Pakistan
Bangladesh
India
China

Only about 25% of the world's Muslims live in the remainder of the world. quite a few of them in the Americas, UK and Europe
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
By the way. Islam makes up 23% of the world population, not 2%. From wiki: " With about 1.6 billion followers or 23% of earth's population, Islam is the second- largest religion and one of the fastest-growing major religions in the world."
The extremist are the ones who make up only about 2% of the global population.
I'm addressing murderous acts in the here and now, not many hundred of years ago.
So am I. Not too long ago the Provisional IRA was hiding bombs in trash cans throughout London, detonating nail bombs, and blowing up hotels. African Christians have butchered Muslims. And Hitler's reign of violence only ended about 70 years ago.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
It could be that the superpower believes it has God on its side. It's a soggy-brained notion, but it could be.

I doubt that the Gov't of the U.S.A. is led by any form of religion anymore.
It's been a disappointing past 6 years at least.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
The extremist are the ones who make up only about 2% of the global population.

So am I. Not too long ago the Provisional IRA was hiding bombs in trash cans throughout London, detonating nail bombs, and blowing up hotels. African Christians have butchered Muslims. And Hitler's reign of violence only ended about 70 years ago.
The IRA is an awful situation created by Colonial Britain. I can't speak much to the Irsih except that the war they fight seems very much to be Christian killing Christian.
Hilter was both insane and led into occult worship by the very occult Himler.
Agreed 70 years is recent history. No agrument there.
I've read 15% of all muslims; I've read 10% of all muslims are active extremists.
You cite "only" 2%. O.K. where did you find that number? What is 2% of 1.6 Billion?
I come up with 1.67 million at 2% but hashing math isn't helping much, and yes I know I started hashing math.
I started the post. As I'd hoped the post drew out many viewpoints to be considered.
So far this thread has not turned into religion vs. religion.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Well, Himmler is supposed to have kept a copy of Gita but I am sure he never read even a line from that book.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Not too long ago the Provisional IRA was hiding bombs in trash cans throughout London, detonating nail bombs, and blowing up hotels.

But the clue is in the name, Irish Republican Army, not Irish Catholic Army, and there was a clear political aim, ie Northern Ireland becoming part of Eire.
In any case what's the relevance of this to the problem of how to deal with militants Islamists here and now? It's a completely different scenario.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
About television news. One must never forget that t-v news is still entertainment.
Enterainment not in what one might see the word, as something that causes a fun feeling but as something that gives high ratings, = viewers = adveretisers = money for the network.
Where else would one get the "news" of what happens in the world or local communities?
I'm encouraged that this thread has brough out many points of view that are
extremely enlightening.
I've learned things from non Christians, non islamic, and Christian and muslims.
I don't wish to see this thread become anti islam or anti anything else.
It would be wonderful if it would become anti-viloence, murder, terror, suffering caused by people misled by a beilief system.
A story I remember from my youth. I'm 68 so my youth was a was many decades ago.
I lived with my uncle & aunt in S.W. Pa. in summes, on a small farm in very rural Pa. very close to the Wva. boarder. My uncle was a very religious fundamental, daily Bible reading, decon in a fundamental Chruch of Christ and a lay preacher.
He was devoutly Christian.
As an aside, when a young child I grew up in a very poor nieghborhood, mostly populated by black people. Those people helped my sister and I , fed us, helped my mother, and it was a long time until I realized there was a socially imposed difference between black and white people. I didn't know, in my innocent mind, that blacks and whites were supposed to be different in some way.
In Pa. where I spent summers with my uncle, was a crossroads store/gas station.
The general store was maybe a mile from Wva. In front of the store was a large sign that procliamed "n*gger don't let the sun set on you", meaning pass thru but don't you dare stay past sunset.
I aksed uncle why the sign was there. Uncle explained that n*ggers were cursed by god, worthless, lazy, stupid, thieving, murdering, sub humans.
WOW. That coming from an authority no less than my revered, religious, Bible reading, church preaching, fine, uncle!
I loved that man dearly and was confused by what he said. I was maybe 10 or 12 at the time.
Later he got his Bible and interpreted things in scripture that he and many others thought were codemnations of African Americans.
I came to not trust the Bible at all for many , many, years.
I tell this story so others can see how anyone's Bible can be interpreted to mean what they want it to mean.
Sad isn't it?
My uncle lived to be 84 years old and still convinced that he was off to heaven to be with God forever.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
But the clue is in the name, Irish Republican Army, not Irish Catholic Army, and there was a clear political aim, ie Northern Ireland becoming part of Eire.
In any case what's the relevance of this to the problem of how to deal with militants Islamists here and now? It's a completely different scenario.

Yes I must agree the IRA and murders in Irland are much, much, more about the politics imposed by Britain, not nearly so much Christain vs. Christian.
This war goes back to the establishment of the Chruch of England that was exteme about being anti Holy Roman Chruch.
The war isn't about religion but politics imposing religion.
I suspect there is much of that in the world.
Political systems will use any excuse to impose politics thru any media, especially religion.
All fighting powers teach, preach, mislead, fighters into believing 'god' is on their side and the other side is evil.
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
Yes I must agree the IRA and murders in Irland are much, much, more about the politics imposed by Britain, not nearly so much Christain vs. Christian.
This war goes back to the establishment of the Chruch of England that was exteme about being anti Holy Roman Chruch.
The war isn't about religion but politics imposing religion.
I suspect there is much of that in the world.
Political systems will use any excuse to impose politics thru any media, especially religion.
All fighting powers teach, preach, mislead, fighters into believing 'god' is on their side and the other side is evil.

While virtually all non-Muslim nations claim they are not acting in the name of religion, it becomes paradoxical that nearly every military unit has a Chaplin and non-Christians have a very difficult time if they are a member of the Military.

demo3.png~original


demo4.png~original


SOURCE Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers | Military Religious Demographics - Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

Nearly every military expedition begins with a prayer.

Are there any Generals that profess to be Atheists or even non-Christian?

Yet they claim they are not acting in the name of religion. Their words may not reflect it but their actions state they are acting as Christians.
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
I doubt that the Gov't of the U.S.A. is led by any form of religion anymore.

Not openly. That'd be illegal given the terms of that pesky Constitution.

It's been a disappointing past 6 years at least.

Six years doesn't undo over 200 years of history ... and if your comment was directed at the current Chief Executive, keep in mind that's only ever one person. Besides, the GOP is waiting in the wings. Take heart. If they smell a buck in theocratic plutocracy, they'll probably go for it.
 
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