How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[Audie]

I’m not God but hey if you want to take that chance then I swish you luck.

Well swish away but what chance is ya talking about?

 

[Audie]

Only what He had written in the Bible but you are correct, I don’t know his favorite color.

What you were told/ read that someone
wrote that God told them to write.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

What you were told/ read that someone
wrote that God told them to write.

Correct

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Why believe that God had anything written in the Bible? Have you ever tested it properly? If so, how?

How would you test the Bible?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

You did not seem to understand the post.

Possibly

 

[Audie]

How would you test the Bible?

Eze peezy.

Check for things that can be verified.

Egypt?
Dead sea?
Goats?
Warfare?
Those all check out.
The mundane stuff.

Flood, or anything else supernatural?
Either zero evidence, of clear disproof.

Leaving some folk tales, a bit of poetry,
but mostly a semi historical novel employing
a lot of magic realism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How would you test the Bible?

I asked you first. I can explain how I would test it, but you probably would not like what my tests show. Of course they are the same sort of test that I would apply to any religion and you would probably find my tests valid if they were not applied to your beliefs, but were aimed at Muslim or even Baha'i beliefs.

You seem to believe that the Bible is accurate, how would you know? By the way, testing the Bible should not be conflated with "testing God".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Only what He had written in the Bible but you are correct, I don’t know his favorite color.

But humans wrote the Bible.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

But humans wrote the Bible.

Guided by God

 

[Tinkerpeach]

I asked you first. I can explain how I would test it, but you probably would not like what my tests show. Of course they are the same sort of test that I would apply to any religion and you would probably find my tests valid if they were not applied to your beliefs, but were aimed at Muslim or even Baha'i beliefs.

You seem to believe that the Bible is accurate, how would you know? By the way, testing the Bible should not be conflated with "testing God".

You can’t possibly test the Bible

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Eze peezy.

Check for things that can be verified.

Egypt?
Dead sea?
Goats?
Warfare?
Those all check out.
The mundane stuff.

Flood, or anything else supernatural?
Either zero evidence, of clear disproof.

Leaving some folk tales, a bit of poetry,
but mostly a semi historical novel employing
a lot of magic realism.

You are assuming you know what the Bible is referring to when nobody knows that for certain.

Is the Bible literal or not?

You can’t use the scientific theory based on unknown facts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Guided by God

So it's claimed.

 

[Audie]

You are assuming you know what the Bible is referring to when nobody knows that for certain.

Is the Bible literal or not?

You can’t use the scientific theory based on unknown facts.

So of what use is the bible since nobody knows
what it is talking about?

 

[Audie]

Guided by God

Ok opinion stated as fact.
Conversation terminated.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can’t possibly test the Bible

I can. You might not be able to. Ironically you just claimed that when it comes to science that it is only pseudoscience.

What is your opinion about the Bible? Is it right no matter what? For example if it says that Jesus was born twice at times at least ten years apart from each other is it still right?


If it says that there was a magical flood that never happened is it still right?

Or are you going to say that those parts of the Bible should not be interpreted literally?

 

[Yokefellow]

That is what happened with me. I decided that I had been lax and needed to become more serious and invested in my faith (National Baptist). So I buckled down, studied the Bible, attended VBS and Bible Study, discussed with my fellow church members and theologians, and read the works of the prominent apologists of the time. And I prayed a lot. I loved it. And the more I learned the further I was driven into non-belief. Until I got to the point where it was clear that there is no reason to be convinced that anyone has a good reason, or is capable of having a good reason, to come to the conclusion that God exists.

Bummer. Sounds like your mind is made up already.

 

[Yokefellow]

If we take the layout of the garden and the layout of the tabernacle as a suggestion then the layout suggests the tree is the ark of the covenant.

Impressive. Not a lot of folks know this.

Jesus is the central figure for the eucharist. You're talking about people drinking blood and eating a body. None of it makes semantic sense.

Neither Catholics, nor most people for that matter, actually understand this verse...

John 6:54
"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

It is as literal as the Zygote you partook of to be incarnated into your Mother's belly.

 

[ppp]

Bummer. Sounds like your mind is made up already.

I don't see that it matters. I, like most humans, have had my mind made up about a lot of different things over the course of my life. And I, like most humans, have had my mind changed from some of those strongly held positions by a combination of evidence and sweet, sweet reason. The whole "mind is made up" thing has always struck me as dishonest, dismissive and lazy.

Case in point: My mind was made up about Christianity being true, before changing my mind about that position.

 

[freelight]

For those of you who don't take the story of the Fall literally. Adam, Eve, Tree, Serpent, etc, how do you envision the Fall of Man happening? And if it didn't happen, what use is Jesus?

All written script must be read 'literally', but it may be 'translated' and 'interpreted' in different ways The Eden story has symbology on many levels as does any story, and even personalities are 'figurative' so to speak, even our own personalities are creative entities subject to change/evolution. Words can never be exact or perfect representations of the ideas they describe.

A 'Fall' (or some idea thereof) may encompass more than any story can illustrate or any particular narrative can explain, but the human condition is what it is, at any given point in time, - all we have is our present awareness in which to ascertain, assume or speculate......but its best to take a scientific approach, and learn by knowledge and experience, continually investigating, researching everything. This includes of course man's inner psychological, emotional, spiritual nature.....the intuitive, the esoteric. (both subjective/objective aspects are part of reality's spectrum).

Man's history, evolution and potential is expressed in every human culture, tradition and religion, - TRUTH is universal, its just experienced and described in various ways, and still.....more information, knowledge and experience is ever going on in the evolution of consciousness. This is what life is about. Even 'God' is evolving along with the total influx and expansion of CREATION.

The use or value of Jesus is determined by the 'user',....to some he is more 'user friendly',.....others reject a traditional con-cept of 'God' or 'Jesus' in various roles of 'atonement'. If Jesus embodies the positive virtues and qualities of 'God', as an avatar of LOVE, then so be it,....Jesus will serve as a wonderful way-shower and exemplar of divine love and goodness, and inspire men to live by love's rule. Love and serve others; forgive and you will be forgiven,.....the kingdom of heaven is within you,.....with what measure you give out, shall be returned to you, and so on. Such is a universal religion, that of love, based on universal and cosmic laws (principles/values).

Not even Jesus instructed anyone to read anything 'literally' (strictly), as he taught his disciples in secret the 'mysteries of the kingdom', and in public in language that was more traditional or acceptable to the masses. There is the exoteric and esoteric teachings of any great master or teacher, as seen in most of the great religious traditions. 'God' judges the heart, soul and inward quality of consciousness, not what name or label one has assumed as if that makes any difference on his inward character. Now some religious paths may be more advantageous or helpful than others, but 'God' alone is judge, and knows each soul. 'God' alone knows all, because 'God' is all.

------------o

 

[ppp]

All written script must be read 'literally', but it may be 'translated' and 'interpreted' in different ways

If you mean the act of reading any script is an act of interpretation, then I agree.

The Eden story has symbology on many levels as does any story, and even personalities are 'figurative' so to speak, even our own personalities are creative entities subject to change/evolution.

I do not see how you can determine that with any certainty. The original author(s) are long dead, and all that we have are multiple oral traditions followed by multiple written traditions. The authors' intent may be entirely symbolic, or entirely literal.

Man's history, evolution and potential is expressed in every human culture, tradition and religion, - TRUTH is universal, its just experienced and described in various ways, and still.....more information, knowledge and experience is ever going on in the evolution of consciousness. This is what life is about. Even 'God' is evolving along with the total influx and expansion of CREATION.

What is true is universal. Experiences and descriptions do not necessarily map to anything that is true. The idea of 'God is evolving. There is no evidence that there is a god to be evolving.

The use or value of Jesus is determined by the 'user'

I meant within the context of Christianity. Without a Fall, Jesus seems superfluous.