How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[ppp]

Kind of

I know that you can't compare the two , but it has indirect effect.

I am just disapointed in how people chose what is primary.

Milions of people die because someone decide what is more important.

There is no progress in the most important things that affect humanity.

There are so many indirect effects that I don't get what your complaint is. Basically, you are arguing that an increase in knowledge about biology is a negative for medical science. That does not make sense to me, especially since an increase in understanding space and chemistry and anthropology have all led to advances in medicine.

 

[Dimi95]

There are so many indirect effects that I don't get what your complaint is. Basically, you are arguing that an increase in knowledge about biology is a negative for medical science. That does not make sense to me, especially since an increase in understanding space and chemistry and anthropology have all led to advances in medicine.

Ok i get you , you have a point.
But i don't say that progress doesn't exist.
In oposite , i do belive in science , without science humanity wouldn't be today where it is.

I only say that science should be focused more on saving the human life,and we should value the human life above everything.
What kind of products did science developed in weapon industry and chemistry.What did that lead to?

You said to me :
"I give respect on the basis of someone being a human being" and "increase or decrease respect based upon their actions and words."

Actions and words define you as what kind of human you are.I agree with that.

So judge me by words

"I was born in South Europe,Eastern Orthodox religion.I was raised and tought about moral from the only Church in a place where majority of the population were Muslims.And the only thing that i refused to listen from the Priests is when they told me to be good with someone who is not good like me.They told me that will make me a good person.And i could not procces that.. I fought oftenly and one time that become a problem..
Just because i could't resist to answer.
So basic kids staff , as you can assume..


I was given a gift from young age to understand things more quickly and i was advanced for my generation(my teacher told that to my mother).
I was perfect in high school and i started taking seriously what science says.
The last year in high school we had that last exam in Math and i solved it in 10 minutes i think.My teacher took my test and went to every class in the school to show the students what commitment means - 100 % work done and oppurtunity.
I felt good and i said to myself , this is the path i want to follow.
It felt good when someone values your effort.I Thoght more from Math perspective , if i commit myself to develop a studying habit i will absorb knowledge and i will have more probabilities to have a normal life.
So make your life better , don't wait for someone else to do it for you.You do that and learn.. I was ready for University..

But **** happens in life.I was put in a situation that had only 1 choice, i had to work and provide money , it was moraly to do , i didn't like it , but family is family.
I went to University , but only for three months.
The job that i worked didn't provide me conditions to commit myself on both places so i worked only.
I was 18 when that happend , and the next 10 years of my life everything i touched i destroyed.I became a new person
I lost my father , and i was so furious at life that put me in that position.I was put on a place that i didn't want it , but i had to do it , and i didn't do it well.I felt on the pressure and i started doing wrong things that affect everbody around me.
When you go that road , it's hard to come back.I am 28 now so that was a long fight for me.Many things happend..

Christ turned me back from all that , in his words i found the light to push me forward , to correct everything i've done and put the broken pieces together.

I knew everything that i was doing was wrong , and still i continued doing it.
I have been aproached many times from people that love me to change myself but nothing ever reached to me.
I said many times to my mother to not speak about religion and to not use such words at home , because i was not comforotable with hearing such nonsense.
I was never asked directly ,but when someone would've asked me do i think God exist then probably i would've said to him to be reasonable with his claims.
I was not a good person , in general.

At my last stage i was so broken emotionaly that all i wanted is to come back to normal life , nothing more.I just wanted that to end.
That life and all the problems , everything to end.
How and what happend is for another time..

I always want to point out something to express my belief with meaning.
And i always try to find something that can explain as it is.

I saw somewhere a question "What Home Means ?" And i tought about it..
For some people that is a House , apartment , place to live , but for me Home is everything.Home Is Love,Home is Family , Home is the child's innocence, Home is all the Good moments in life,Home is where your hearth lays.
And i found my way back Home.

I should 've done better , but i didn't , i felt on the pressure and disapointed myself and everyone else.
I was weak and i was falling
And i had predispositions to be something,but i chosed to lose my focus.
And Christ pulled me back,i belived in that wisdom , and i acted.

I don't regret the commitment that i put in school,i will continue it

I Learned also something about shame , it can be your greatest weapon and your greatest enemy.
If you use it as a motiv to fix things, it is a weapon , but if you hide it , you will fall deep in it.

I understand how you see the personal expirience as evidence , but just wanted to say my way to it..
Still doesn't prove anything on how atheists see things, but i take my life lesson against every oposite.

What is the consequence of that to not be true? - i Will rot in the ground when i die, nothing more.

 

[ppp]

I only say that science should be focused more on saving the human life,and we should value the human life above everything.

I disagree with where you place the onus. There are more people who would pursue the sciences than currently have the opportunity. It is not science that should refocus, but society that should focus on providing more resources.

I agree that human life should be a priority, but I think that human happiness is right there with it.

What kind of products did science developed in weapon industry and chemistry.What did that lead to?

All sorts of horrors.
Also...Blood banks. Prosthetics. Reconstructive surgery. Advances in trauma surgery The recognition and treatment of PTSD

I should 've done better , but i didn't , i felt on the pressure and disapointed myself and everyone else.
I was weak and i was falling
And i had predispositions to be something,but i chosed to lose my focus.
And Christ pulled me back,i belived in that wisdom , and i acted.

What I see is that you did the work. Perhaps with the support of other human beings, and the idea of Jesus; but the work was all yours.

What is the consequence of that to not be true? - i Will rot in the ground when i die, nothing more.

That you waste the only life that you have on a lie.

 

[Dimi95]

I disagree with where you place the onus. There are more people who would pursue the sciences than currently have the opportunity. It is not science that should refocus, but society that should focus on providing more resources.

Yeah , i agree with the correction.
I am more for "need" then "oppurtunity".
Majority don't think so..
That last setence is a wide topic , society has different category of people.

All sorts of horrors.
Also...Blood banks. Prosthetics. Reconstructive surgery. Advances in trauma surgery The recognition and treatment of PTSD

Fair enough

What I see is that you did the work. Perhaps with the support of other human beings, and the idea of Jesus; but the work was all yours.

I try to explain it as best as i can.
I know that i am emotionaly conected with the writings and teachings.Probably because it gave me comfort when i was hurting.So that explains the need to justify it.
It's not rational to act and behave like this , i know that , i am in a position where my understanding is based on personal experience and that is oposite of logic.But i have a reason , and i will persue the logic as far as it can.

My brain couldn't procces how can such teachings have so much effect on the situations.What trigerred me is the tought that people face different situations and still find comfort.
It's too much people..
It's beyond ordinary , that's for sure, the design to be that effective is what made me question it.


It drove me back to think about everything that i did wrong and to rethink it over again.To study my mistakes , and act to correct them.

I agree also that the work was mine,but the procces to reach to work on that is a tough topic for me to discuss.
I don't know how to explain myself what i was.
Nothing,not even my mothers tears reached to me, not even profesional help.

It hurts me to say these things , but that is how it was.

So i am gratefull for that way back.

We started on the wrong foot , i will take your advice to structure sentences more correctly so we can have discussion , not lecture.

 

[Dimi95]

So it’s more likely that matter has always existed, and that eliminates the assumption that there was a messy uncaused cause. No need for your God any more. Any questions?

Wait , wait , wait

Every effect, or happening, has a cause.

It's more likely , not certain.

So i tought of something.
Can you disaprove that we may continue in this or another form of life in another dimension separated from ours if the only way to know that is to die?
I can't prove it, but can you disaprove what i said?

 

[F1fan]

Wait , wait , wait

Every effect, or happening, has a cause.

Great, what caused your God?

It's more likely , not certain.

Which is bad news for believers.

So i tought of something.
Can you disaprove that we may continue in this or another form of life in another dimension separated from ours if the only way to know that is to die?

Your question is too vague, and looks to be a bit absurd.

I can't prove it, but can you disaprove what i said?

Disaprove? Do you mean disprove?

And you must not be aware of proving a negative as a logical fallacy.

 

[Dimi95]

Great, what caused your God?

Which is bad news for believers.

Your question is too vague, and looks to be a bit absurd.

Disaprove? Do you mean disprove?

And you must not be aware of proving a negative as a logical fallacy.

Disprove , sry

You can't disprove it neither can i prove it.

That is called unknown and untestable

So , what is unknown can/can't hapen.
Unkown for example is what all the people will/will not do tommorow at 12.
It is also unkown to you what i am writing now at this moment and you will see it when i post it.

So based on the fact that unknown can hapen there is 50 % possibility against what we know , we can't prove or disprove what i asked.

So however you see it , that 50 % will be always there.And that 50 % can/can't have effect on our 50 % .It is always 50 - 50.

So more likely becomes nothing because there is a 50 % possibility of unknown effect.

So you can't prove what you said about matter.Because there is something that we don't know it and we can't test it.

That leave's us to my logical argument.




.

 

[F1fan]

Disprove , sry

You can't disprove it neither can i prove it.

Some ideas can't be assessed either way, and that essentially nullifies them. Just because we can ask questions doesn;t mean we have answers, or should believe one way or the other.

That is called unknown and untestable

Just like the many gods humans believe in. That's why the smart thing is to not believe in any of them.

So , what is unknown can/can't hapen.

Only if plausible. Otherwise, irrelevant. Remember plausible means consistent with facts and knowledge. Fantastic claims like supernatural nonsense is irrelevant.

Unkown for example is what all the people will/will not do tommorow at 12.
It is also unkown to you what i am writing now at this moment and you will see it when i post it.

So?

So based on the fact that unknown can hapen there is 50 % possibility against what we know , we can't prove or disprove what i asked.

False. Implausible things don't happen. All you can say is that the future is to some degree uncertain. You still make plans and go about tomorrow following your plan. What is the chance there will be something that happens to disrupt your plans? I'd say pretty small.

Let's say your friend Jim helved you work on a project and he's going to help you again tomorrow, is there a chance he will show up with as ex change. No, they don't happen that fast.

So however you see it , that 50 % will be always there.And that 50 % can/can't have effect on our 50 % .It is always 50 - 50.

So more likely becomes nothing because there is a 50 % possibility of unknown effect.

So you can't prove what you said about matter.Because there is something that we don't know it and we can't test it.

That leave's us to my logical argument.

You are playing word games, not making an argument. None of your percentages here are accurate because you aren't pointing to anything specific. When believers use word games and are being vague that means they are trying to be deceptive. Why don't you cut to the chase?

 

[Dimi95]

Some ideas can't be assessed either way, and that essentially nullifies them. Just because we can ask questions doesn;t mean we have answers, or should believe one way or the other.

Just like the many gods humans believe in. That's why the smart thing is to not believe in any of them.

Only if plausible. Otherwise, irrelevant. Remember plausible means consistent with facts and knowledge. Fantastic claims like supernatural nonsense is irrelevant.

So?

False. Implausible things don't happen. All you can say is that the future is to some degree uncertain. You still make plans and go about tomorrow following your plan. What is the chance there will be something that happens to disrupt your plans? I'd say pretty small.

Let's say your friend Jim helved you work on a project and he's going to help you again tomorrow, is there a chance he will show up with as ex change. No, they don't happen that fast.


You are playing word games, not making an argument. None of your percentages here are accurate because you aren't pointing to anything specific. When believers use word games and are being vague that means they are trying to be deceptive. Why don't you cut to the chase?

Did you see anywhere in what i wrote God?

You can make plans , but you don't have to , the action can be also spontaneous.

You can't eliminate the possibility of unknown effect,when predicting the future is also unknown.

You can't say that supernatural is irrelevent when unknown is releated term of supernatural.
.
That's how it is.

This is mathematically correct.

 

[F1fan]

Did you see anywhere in what i wrote God?

I recognize the word games, and know what the vagueness is hiding. This thread is about what Christians believe. Look at your handle, there's a clue what your assumptions are.

You can make plans , but you don't have to , the action can be also spontaneous.

So?

You can't eliminate the possibility of unknown effect,when predicting the future is also unknown.

So what? That's life. We get caught in traffic, flat tires. Deal with it.

You can't say that supernatural is irrelevent when unknown is releated term of supernatural.

Why assume a supernatural exists and is a relevant issue? I've never had a supernatural problem. I don't know of anyone ever mentioning such a thing. So how would it be relevant?

That's how it is

This is mathematically correct.

You didn't show us how you arrived at your made up math. So it's irrelevant.

 

[Dimi95]

Don't play me like a fool. This thread is about what Christians believe. Look at your handle, there's a clue what your assumptions are.

So?

So what? That's life. We get caught in traffic, flat tires. Deal with it.

Why assume a supernatural exists and is a relevant issue? I've never had a supernatural problem. I don't know of anyone ever mentioning such a thing. So how would it be relevant?

You didn't show us how you arrived at your made up math. So it's irrelevant.

I repeat , unknown is untestable.

Unknown is when you can't prove or disprove something, you can check this if you want.

Irrelevnat is what is related to unknown,because depends on the action.

So if you can't prove and disprove ,it's 50/50 known vs. unknown.

 

[F1fan]

I repeat , unknown is untestable.

Unknown is when you can't prove or disprove something, you can check this if you want.

So you're an atheist, yes?

Irrelevnat is what is related to unknown,because depends on the action.

So if you can't prove and disprove ,it's 50/50 known vs. unknown.

No, it's zero.

 

[Muffled]

What about Trump?

I believe He will be the nominee because people remember he brought us low inflation.

 

[Muffled]

Since it’s you declaring that God never is mistaken, and you admit you could be mistaken, our conclusion is that you could be wrong about God.

If only a God existed that we could study.

I believe I can't be wrong if God is testifying of Himself.

 

[Muffled]

But you could be mistaken.

I believe it is difficult to be mistaken about actual events in life.

 

[metis]

I believe He will be the nominee because people remember he brought us low inflation.

So, it's all about the "almighty dollar" is it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So, it's all about the "almighty dollar" is it?

Trump did not bring "low inflation". We already had low inflation rates. He did not even bring on a recovery. He merely maintained the recovery that Obama started. If one looks at economic growth it was stable once the recovery began in Obama's administration. As to the latest outbreak of inflation, the cause of that arose during Trump's administration. I do not blame Trump for it, the cause was the pandemic and that was going to happen regardless of who was in office. The combination of shutdowns, which again began under Trump, and massive government payments to people to help them get through the crisis, was what caused inflation. Not bad planning from Biden. He inherited that problem. But Biden is a class act, at least compared to Trump, or even Obama for that matter. He did not endlessly blame the former administration. He merely did his best to handle the problem.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You know, tithing was part of the Mosaic Law; as such, it was solely to support the Levites & Levitical priests, because they had no inheritance among the other tribes.

You don’t find that convenient?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So , what is unknown can/can't hapen.
Unkown for example is what all the people will/will not do tommorow at 12.
It is also unkown to you what i am writing now at this moment and you will see it when i post it.

I would argue that if I had knowledge of 100% of the factors involved in your day, I could not only know what you would do but exactly how you would do it.

 

[metis]

Trump did not bring "low inflation". We already had low inflation rates. He did not even bring on a recovery. He merely maintained the recovery that Obama started. If one looks at economic growth it was stable once the recovery began in Obama's administration. As to the latest outbreak of inflation, the cause of that arose during Trump's administration. I do not blame Trump for it, the cause was the pandemic and that was going to happen regardless of who was in office. The combination of shutdowns, which again began under Trump, and massive government payments to people to help them get through the crisis, was what caused inflation. Not bad planning from Biden. He inherited that problem. But Biden is a class act, at least compared to Trump, or even Obama for that matter. He did not endlessly blame the former administration. He merely did his best to handle the problem.

^^Amen to dat!^^