How can you be a True Christian™ if you don't take the Eden story literally?

[F1fan]

I believe I can't be wrong if God is testifying of Himself.

Well that’s a nice confirmation bias you created for yourself. Let’s hope you don’t hear your God testify to go hurt people, like the 9-11 hijackers heard. They have your same God, which is why I get worried when I see believers so certain.

 

[F1fan]

I believe He will be the nominee because people remember he brought us low inflation.

No, he brought us humiliation.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You don’t find that convenient?

They had to live, right?
They cleaned, maintained & repaired the Tabernacle (& later, the Temple), in addition to teaching the people & handling sacrifices, and they never got rich off of it…. They were 1/12th of Israel, and they received 1/10 from them…. close to equal. Considering they had no land inheritance.

Later though, as Israel left off worshipping Jehovah, many abused their privileges.

Have a good day.

 

[ppp]

Yeah , i agree with the correction.
I am more for "need" then "oppurtunity".
Majority don't think so..
That last setence is a wide topic , society has different category of people.


Fair enough



I try to explain it as best as i can.
I know that i am emotionaly conected with the writings and teachings.Probably because it gave me comfort when i was hurting.So that explains the need to justify it.
It's not rational to act and behave like this , i know that , i am in a position where my understanding is based on personal experience and that is oposite of logic.But i have a reason , and i will persue the logic as far as it can.

My brain couldn't procces how can such teachings have so much effect on the situations.What trigerred me is the tought that people face different situations and still find comfort.
It's too much people..
It's beyond ordinary , that's for sure, the design to be that effective is what made me question it.


It drove me back to think about everything that i did wrong and to rethink it over again.To study my mistakes , and act to correct them.

I agree also that the work was mine,but the procces to reach to work on that is a tough topic for me to discuss.
I don't know how to explain myself what i was.
Nothing,not even my mothers tears reached to me, not even profesional help.

It hurts me to say these things , but that is how it was.

So i am gratefull for that way back.

We started on the wrong foot , i will take your advice to structure sentences more correctly so we can have discussion , not lecture.

I am glad that you found your way out of an unfulfilling life. And I do not doubt that it was a profound experience for you. I just don't see it as anything other than an entirely human interaction with an entirely human institution. We all have profound and life altering experiences. I have yet to see any good reason to conclude that there is any non-material cause for those experiences.

But this thread was not about the existence of the supernatural; rather how non-literalist view the Eden story. Specifically, without a literal Fall, from what is Jesus saving them.

 

[CG Didymus]

this thread was not about the existence of the supernatural; rather how non-literalist view the Eden story. Specifically, without a literal Fall, from what is Jesus saving them.

Has there been good answers to this question... Can a person be a true Christian without taking the Eden story literally?

From what I remember from Fundy-types of Christians is that we can't save ourselves, because we can never do enough or ever be good enough to pay the penalty for our sins. Only a perfect sacrifice, Jesus, was good enough and able to pay that penalty.

So, if a true Christian takes the NT literally, then they need Jesus to undo the thing that Adam did in Eden. That is disobey God and causing sin and death to enter the world.

If that is not literally true, then what is true about Jesus? The Eden story and the Jesus story become false, mythical, symbolic, or something, anything except being literally true.

So, what is it that those people that consider themselves true Christians, yet don't believe the Eden story literally, believe? And does that make the Christians that do take it literally the ones that are wrong?

For me, I think they are both wrong, but I do believe that, for them, their religion and their beliefs make sense to them and work for them. But I believe most any religion and most any belief can do that.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

They cleaned, maintained & repaired the Tabernacle (& later, the Temple), in addition to teaching the people & handling sacrifices, and they never got rich off of it…. They were 1/12th of Israel, and they received 1/10 from them…. close to equal. Considering they had no land inheritance.

But the food was for God, right? Nothing really stopped them from living their lives. Just accuse your critics of something and stone them and take their stuff.

 

[ppp]

Has there been good answers to this question... Can a person be a true Christian without taking the Eden story literally?

From what I remember from Fundy-types of Christians is that we can't save ourselves, because we can never do enough or ever be good enough to pay the penalty for our sins. Only a perfect sacrifice, Jesus, was good enough and able to pay that penalty.

So, if a true Christian takes the NT literally, then they need Jesus to undo the thing that Adam did in Eden. That is disobey God and causing sin and death to enter the world.

If that is not literally true, then what is true about Jesus? The Eden story and the Jesus story become false, mythical, symbolic, or something, anything except being literally true.

So, what is it that those people that consider themselves true Christians, yet don't believe the Eden story literally, believe? And does that make the Christians that do take it literally the ones that are wrong?

For me, I think they are both wrong, but I do believe that, for them, their religion and their beliefs make sense to them and work for them. But I believe most any religion and most any belief can do that.

There have been a few that have brushed against the questiion, but I haven't seen anything in depth consideration of the issue.

 

[CG Didymus]

There have been a few that have brushed against the questiion, but I haven't seen anything in depth consideration of the issue.

It was fifty years ago when a friend coaxed me into getting "saved", and as I remember they had the whole story from Genesis to Malachi all explained and interpreted, very literally, that made Jesus and Satan all part of the Hebrew Bible. And then, of course, everything got resolved in the NT.... Jesus conquers Satan and death, and the believers live happily ever after forever and ever. I just couldn't keep believing... literally, symbolically or in any way other than it was all just myth.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

For those of you who don't take the story of the Fall literally. Adam, Eve, Tree, Serpent, etc, how do you envision the Fall of Man happening? And if it didn't happen, what use is Jesus?

There never was a fall in the literal sense of there being a historical Adam and Eve and snake. Mankind evolved, same as all the other animals. Part of that evolution was the development of instincts, such as having sex. At a certain point in history, we also evolved empathy and a sense of fairness -- the building blocks of morality. This new conscience sometimes conflicted with our instincts. In Judaism we called these two sides of us our Yetzer HaRa (inclination to evil) and Yetzer HaTov (inclination to good). You might say, in a figurative sense, that when we reached this new moral sentience, we fell out of harmony with nature, with others, with ourselves, and with God. You can call that "the fall" if you wish.

What use is Jesus? I'm a Jew. I think Jesus has no relevance at all.

 

[ppp]

There never was a fall in the literal sense of there being a historical Adam and Eve and snake. Mankind evolved, same as all the other animals. Part of that evolution was the development of instincts, such as having sex. At a certain point in history, we also evolved empathy and a sense of fairness -- the building blocks of morality. This new conscience sometimes conflicted with our instincts. In Judaism we called these two sides of us our Yetzer HaRa (inclination to evil) and Yetzer HaTov (inclination to good). You might say, in a figurative sense, that when we reached this new moral sentience, we fell out of harmony with nature, with others, with ourselves, and with God. You can call that "the fall" if you wish.

What use is Jesus? I'm a Jew. I think Jesus has no relevance at all.

Well, sure. This is not a problem in Judaism. Only in the reboots.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's your own choice to belive that you exist without any reason.

Why did Evolution stopped then , we don't have thousand years to find the truth

It hasn't.

"Darwin wrote that he could visualize "in some warm little pond," with all sorts of salts and electricity, the spontaneous generation of the first living cell.
Darwin preserved a piece of vermicelli pasta in a glass case, till by some extraordinary means it began to move with voluntary motion."

No. LOL

All theory need testing wright?
So buy the pasta and leave a piece in a test tube with saltet water.
Leave it for years , but you won't see it moving voluntary and you won't see life in it.
But try , why not ..

Only Darwin saw it and belived it , oh wait... but.. theists.. belive .. oh no.

Um no, and we wouldn't expect to see life spring from a piece of pasta. That's absurd.

And

How much funds and resources will be used untill we get the information about the first life.
Because we are in 2023 and we still don't have cure for serous medical conditions.
Where is the progress there?
Milions of people died , and are still dying,and will die.

Insisting on finding life , but still failing to save it.

Where is the progress? Well, we know a ton more than we did about where everything came from than we did just a few decades ago. That's progress. In the meantime, we've also cured a ton of medical conditions or created treatments for them. We no longer have 50% of children dying before the age of five, like we used to just about a century ago. People are living much longer than they used to, thanks to scientific medical advancements. Several people I know have beaten cancers that were once thought to be untreatable. We've made all kinds of scientific progress and will continue to do so. Sorry you aren't aware of any of it, but that's a you problem.

 

[Muffled]

So, it's all about the "almighty dollar" is it?

Isn't life mostly about that? So why would I wish for a diminished life as it is with Biden's inflation?

 

[Muffled]

Trump did not bring "low inflation". We already had low inflation rates. He did not even bring on a recovery. He merely maintained the recovery that Obama started. If one looks at economic growth it was stable once the recovery began in Obama's administration. As to the latest outbreak of inflation, the cause of that arose during Trump's administration. I do not blame Trump for it, the cause was the pandemic and that was going to happen regardless of who was in office. The combination of shutdowns, which again began under Trump, and massive government payments to people to help them get through the crisis, was what caused inflation. Not bad planning from Biden. He inherited that problem. But Biden is a class act, at least compared to Trump, or even Obama for that matter. He did not endlessly blame the former administration. He merely did his best to handle the problem.

I believe like Biden, Obama had to do damage control for all the harm he did to the economy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe like Biden, Obama had to do damage control for all the harm he did to the economy.

What? Your post does not appear to make any sense. Are you saying that Obama had to do damage control over the mess that he inherited from Bush just as Biden had to do damage control over the mess that he inherited from Trump"

I would think that was obvious.

 

[metis]

Isn't life mostly about that?

Not according to Jesus and probably most who actually believe in him. Also, not according to me.

So why would I wish for a diminished life as it is with Biden's inflation?

Who says you have a "diminished life"? Due to what?

Happiness comes from within oneself, not what's outside of it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Isn't life mostly about that? So why would I wish for a diminished life as it is with Biden's inflation?

Perhaps because living in a Trump dictatorship would be even more diminished?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Isn't life mostly about that? So why would I wish for a diminished life as it is with Biden's inflation?

Why do you call it "Biden's inflation?" Do you call the covid pandemic "Trump's disease"? If not you are not being consistent.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

For those of you who don't take the story of the Fall literally. Adam, Eve, Tree, Serpent, etc, how do you envision the Fall of Man happening? And if it didn't happen, what use is Jesus?

The story is there for context since God had to write a beginning, just like an ending.

It really doesn’t matter if it’s literal or not it’s the story about man falling from grace with God ultimately culminating with the Death of Jesus.

People who focus on the details are missing Gods point

 

[CG Didymus]

The story is there for context since God had to write a beginning, just like an ending.

It really doesn’t matter if it’s literal or not it’s the story about man falling from grace with God ultimately culminating with the Death of Jesus.

People who focus on the details are missing Gods point

But is that literally true? Was there a fall? Did Jesus have to die to pay the penalty for the sins of all people. And is the God described in the Bible real? If that stuff is literally true, then why not the details?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

But is that literally true? Was there a fall? Did Jesus have to die to pay the penalty for the sins of all people. And is the God described in the Bible real? If that stuff is literally true, then why not the details?

Because God does not want us to focus on the details, He wants us to focus on our salvation through Christ and everything that comes with that.

The rest of the Bible is there to provide a little history and many examples of how we are to live our lives.

Knowing what color the snake was in the Garden is irrelevant