How can you justify torturing someone forever?

[Benoni]

As I see it, torturing someone forever produces no good results. Torturing someone forever is the most evil thing imaginable. Nothing is worse than this. How do you reasonably justify torturing a being for all eternity? How do you reasonably justify the belief that a good god would do the most evil thing possible?

I agree with you. It is has nothing to do with who Jesus is. Did not Jesus tell the women at the well "go and sin no more"? Should he not of told her; your going to hell if you do not believe in me?

The wrath of God can only be discribed in the NT as the "wrath of the lamb". Have you ever seen a lamb get MAD?

 

[Reverend Rick]

So we know what to wear. Duh.

Why did I not think of that. It makes complete sense now.

 

[Oberon]

have you seen your quote box.....

whats that thing girl im freaked out...

It's from the movie "The Dark Crystal."

 

[Beaudreaux]

they choose not to believe in God dont they?

if you choose not to believe in something then you reject it, simple as.

and if you reject God then you choose seperation from him, leading to of course hell.

That statement makes no sense. If I "choose" not to believe in God, then it is impossible for me to choose to be separated from him, because I do not consider such a choice to be possible. How can one choose to be separated from something that does not exist?

 

[blackout]

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...n-you-justify-torturing-someone-new-post.html

How can you justify torturing someone forever?

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...n-you-justify-torturing-someone-new-post.html

you can't.

 

[blackout]

I wanted to make sure of your views so that we werent talking over each other. according to my faith none of us are perfect, we All deserve destruction, it only by Gods grace that we are saved, all we must do is accept it.

it isnt at all legalistic.

no matter what rules you follow we all will fail.

ultiamtelyall we need is gods grace.

thats legalistic?

We all deserve destruction?

How much faith does it take to believe such a thing?

By YOUR OWN arguement (or your own rules)
you WILL FAIL
at accepting god's grace.


I like to believe that we each individually get what we personally believe.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

this is about my religion not yours, universalim ignores scripture that plainly states of a sort of hell, I cannot change that, and i am not willing to knowingling ignore scripture to make me feel good, if you have some amazing scriptural arguement which will convince me of universalism, let me here it, but nothing even remotely close to that has been brought here.

and when have i ever specified anyone is going to hell? ultimately Romans states that anyone who willingly calls out to God will be saved. this thread is not about who/who will nto be saved, if it where I would have made that statement long ago. This thread is about How a God could torture someone forever, and my statements have included me as well. I am not somehow an amazing guy who doesnt deserve to go to hell, I do it is only by Gods grace that I am saved.
I ultimately am no better than anyone else, I cannot judge or condem you only God can.

"Don't kill the messenger."

Eternal torture is unjustifiable. That's my position - take it or leave it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It amuses me to great lengths that people are naive enough to think "all we need to do" is "accept it".

Let's assume for a second that is true. When deciding to believe in such a thing, I would HOPE the person deciding such a thing would weigh the options on both sides.

For example, if we rationalize this idea, eventually we conclude that by "us" accepting it, we are granting ourselves the power to be saved. We are able to dictate at anytime, "as long as our heart is pure" :areyoucra when we get saved.

So I could start at one end of the Vegas strip and choose the finest of women to ravage for a month, and when I get to the other end, find lawn chair by a pool, and tell God, I'm ready, let's do this thing.

Talk about imagination, and gullibility in a sheep. Whoever made this crap up really was self centered.

 

[tarasan]

That statement makes no sense. If I "choose" not to believe in God, then it is impossible for me to choose to be separated from him, because I do not consider such a choice to be possible. How can one choose to be separated from something that does not exist?

by rejecting God you are seperating yourself from him

you choose to reject him therefore you choose to be separate.

 

[tarasan]

"Don't kill the messenger."

Eternal torture is unjustifiable. That's my position - take it or leave it.

good luck proving its unjustifyable.

but if that is your view thats fine.

 

[tarasan]

We all deserve destruction?

How much faith does it take to believe such a thing?

By YOUR OWN arguement (or your own rules)
you WILL FAIL
at accepting god's grace.


I like to believe that we each individually get what we personally believe.

no by my own arguement i will fail if i go it alone, however I repented under god.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

good luck proving its unjustifyable.

but if that is your view thats fine.

Thank you. Riddle me this, Batman....

When is torture justifiable here on Earth?

 

[DeitySlayer]

by rejecting God you are seperating yourself from him

you choose to reject him therefore you choose to be separate.

An atheist does not believe that God exists and turns away from him; an atheist believes that God does not exist and that there is nothing to turn away from.

It's like saying 'I choose to be separate from fairies'.

 

[tarasan]

Thank you. Riddle me this, Batman....

When is torture justifiable here on Earth?

riddle me this Robin, when is that torture done by an all just God?

you cannot compare fallable humans with God, for all you know sin is a justifiable reason, merely because someone has used something for evil does not mean it cannot be used for justice.

 

[tarasan]

An atheist does not believe that God exists and turns away from him; an atheist believes that God does not exist and that there is nothing to turn away from.

It's like saying 'I choose to be separate from fairies'.

thats fair enough just you wait though those fairies will come outta tree and kick your ***.


(seriously man in Ireland fairies kick the crap outta everyone..... dont mess with them....)

 

[DeitySlayer]

thats fair enough just you wait though those fairies will come outta tree and kick your ***.


(seriously man in Ireland fairies kick the crap outta everyone..... dont mess with them....)

:biglaugh: LOL

Seriously though, the underlying question is; if a viewpoint hinged on the existence of a being which you are unable to prove, i.e. God, then the viewpoint is rather tenuous and talking about 'eternal damnation' from God is kind of like talking about eternal damnation from fairies.

 

[DeitySlayer]

merely because someone has used something for evil does not mean it cannot be used for justice.

Torture can be used for justice? Inflicting pain on someone, never letting up, not as a teaching method, but as an eternal punishment, is justice?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

riddle me this Robin, when is that torture done by an all just God?

you cannot compare fallable humans with God, for all you know sin is a justifiable reason, merely because someone has used something for evil does not mean it cannot be used for justice.

Oh stop dodging the question.

If your God is an anthropomorphized version of humans (i.e. if you subscribe to the notion that we are created in his image), there are certain parallels with what is "righteous" here on Earth and what is "righteous" or just in the afterlife. If there is no reason to adhere to any moral standarads, I doubt your doctrine would spell out the need to follow the Ten Commandments or find any relevence in morality or ethics while living.

Following that logic,then, what happens here effectively impacts what happens in the afterlife, and there is continuity in morality from birth to death to eternal destination.....and if torture is considered a viable destination, then surely there is relevence for using it here by your God's moral standards, no?

So, please answer my question. When is torture justifiable here on Earth?

 

[tarasan]

Torture can be used for justice? Inflicting pain on someone, never letting up, not as a teaching method, but as an eternal punishment, is justice?

justice [ˈdʒʌstɪs]n1. the quality or fact of being just
2. (Philosophy) Ethicsa. the principle of fairness that like cases should be treated alike
b. a particular distribution of benefits and burdens fairly in accordance with a particular conception of what are to count as like cases
c. the principle that punishment should be proportionate to the offence

justice - definition of justice by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

If it is fair when you consider the crimes then yes it could most certianly be percieved as justice.

so long as sin is worth being punished forever for, then yes it is just

and if you pull the whole finit crime for infinite punishment malarcy again im gonna sigh sooooo hard.

 

[DeitySlayer]

justice [ˈdʒʌstɪs]n1. the quality or fact of being just
2. (Philosophy) Ethicsa. the principle of fairness that like cases should be treated alike
b. a particular distribution of benefits and burdens fairly in accordance with a particular conception of what are to count as like cases
c. the principle that punishment should be proportionate to the offence

justice - definition of justice by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

If it is fair when you consider the crimes then yes it could most certianly be percieved as justice.

so long as sin is worth being punished forever for, then yes it is just

and if you pull the whole finit crime for infinite punishment malarcy again im gonna sigh sooooo hard.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Christianity generally teaches that sin can be 'wiped out' by repentance and honour/respect/prayer/acceptance of God. The Ten Commandments defines lying as a sin. So, hypothetically, does this mean that if Hitler repented before his death, he would be forgiven, but a man who did charity work and helped others all his life, but was an atheist, and told a lie which he never repented for, would go to Hell, because the sin was 'staining his soul'? Is that your perception of justice?