How can you justify torturing someone forever?

[Beaudreaux]

you want me to be frank?

because you chose it, every human being has turned away from God willingly, everyone who is going to hell CHOSE to go to hell, they CHOSE to reject him, and being angry at God for your choice is a little sad, its like blaming the police for going to jail.

And who said God was going to toture you? alot of christians believe he will just leave you alone with the knowledge that you rejected him, and his perfect love, and cut you off from him, which is what you wanted your entire life, which of course will cause you to suffer, others yes believe you will burn, but only because YOU ran into the flames, others think youll merely be destroyed, and forgotten.

all these fates are of your chosing, you chose to suffer and you dont have anyone else to blame, you can get angry and yell its not fair, but you chose it, not God.

But no one really chooses hell. They simply do not believe hell exists. The worst you can say about them is that they are mistaken. Why torture someone forever because they guessed wrong?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

you want me to be frank?

because you chose it, every human being has turned away from God willingly, everyone who is going to hell CHOSE to go to hell, they CHOSE to reject him, and being angry at God for your choice is a little sad, its like blaming the police for going to jail.

Thats nonsense.
People that actually believe in the existence of your specific god might turn away from what they believe to be true.
But actually most people simply do not believe in a (any) god. They do not choose to reject him, they simply see no evidence for his existence just as you do not turn away from the great great brahmaputrah but simply do not think that such an entity exists.

Secondly your remark doesn't actually solve the problem.
What kind of morality is it to put someone in eternal hell just because he doesn't do your bidding? Thats like a father raping or killing his kid just because it doesn't say "thanks you dad" when sitting at the table for breakfast.

And who said God was going to toture you? alot of christians believe he will just leave you alone with the knowledge that you rejected him, and his perfect love, and cut you off from him, which is what you wanted your entire life, which of course will cause you to suffer, others yes believe you will burn, but only because YOU ran into the flames, others think youll merely be destroyed, and forgotten.

As usual the kids of god don't even know what to believe. Yet that same god supposedly is a moral being either killing or torturing others for not believing in something which even believers have problems to define.

all these fates are of your chosing, you chose to suffer and you dont have anyone else to blame, you can get angry and yell its not fair, but you chose it, not God.

Nonsense.

 

[tarasan]

And how is it that your distortions are any better?
Or are you claiming to know what the "real" meanings are?

Im claiming that i look clearly the concept of hell and dont leave key verses out of it, he has been ignoring clear verses that talk about what happens to people in eternity.

we should be looking at verses which clearly states what happens to unbelievers after death to help us interpret those whihc arnt so clear not the other way around.

 

[tarasan]

But no one really chooses hell. They simply do not believe hell exists. The worst you can say about them is that they are mistaken. Why torture someone forever because they guessed wrong?

they choose not to believe in God dont they?

if you choose not to believe in something then you reject it, simple as.

and if you reject God then you choose seperation from him, leading to of course hell.

 

[tarasan]

Thats nonsense.
People that actually believe in the existence of your specific god might turn away from what they believe to be true.
But actually most people simply do not believe in a (any) god. They do not choose to reject him, they simply see no evidence for his existence just as you do not turn away from the great great brahmaputrah but simply do not think that such an entity exists.

if you choose not to believe in something arnt you rejecting it? I mean I dont believe in the literal 7 day creation story, doesnt that mean i reject it? I dont believe in allah or thor so arnt I rejecting them as actualities in reality. Of course I am

Secondly your remark doesn't actually solve the problem.
What kind of morality is it to put someone in eternal hell just because he doesn't do your bidding? Thats like a father raping or killing his kid just because it doesn't say "thanks you dad" when sitting at the table for breakfast.

when did it say it was it was because we didnt do what he said? your putting words in my mouth. Its because we turn away and sin, that is why you dont go to heaven, your over simplifying the situation. its like a guy kills a person and blames the judge for putting him in jail.

As usual the kids of god don't even know what to believe. Yet that same god supposedly is a moral being either killing or torturing others for not believing in something which even believers have problems to define.

ahhh what a meaningless statement...

to expect us to be able to define a being like God is like expecting you to a planet with nothing but some dirt and a shovel

Nonsense.

an excellent contribution.....

 

[tarasan]

God created Hell. God loves us. God is all-forgiving. God refuses to interfere in our lives to stop us from going to Hell. Once we go to Hell we are condemned for eternity. Exactly how do you reconcile this?

Perhaps a [youtube]ZWdhDpW49Iw[/youtube]
video will make it clear?

MTF

This video doesnt really take into account Prevenient grace.

its whenever God offers you salavation, however you refuse.

it would be like in the video Jesus running up and calling to the person, grabbing them trying to make them see, however the person merely shrugs him off, pushes him away so determined are they to get into that burning building, remeber I said you choose that buring building its not that you are unaware of such a place, you just dont care, youve heard the warnings, youve resisted the calls and grabs, all to get to the one place that you want to go to, that burning building.

ohh and btw sin is more than just calling someone names.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why do people who don't believe in God worry so much about where he is going to send them?

 

[Peacewise]

Which is better being dead or suffering?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Which is better being dead or suffering?

Good question :yes:

 

[tarasan]

Why do people who don't believe in God worry so much about where he is going to send them?

I have no idea although Im sure its because it "offends them"

 

[MysticSang'ha]

are you saying that Gandi or the Dalai Lama are perfect?

You didn't answer my question.

And it's pointless to ask me my views on others spiritual integrity. I don't subscribe to legalistic and exclusionary doctrine.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why do people who don't believe in God worry so much about where he is going to send them?

So we know what to wear. Duh.

 

[tarasan]

You didn't answer my question.

And it's pointless to ask me my views on others spiritual integrity. I don't subscribe to legalistic and exclusionary doctrine.

I wanted to make sure of your views so that we werent talking over each other. according to my faith none of us are perfect, we All deserve destruction, it only by Gods grace that we are saved, all we must do is accept it.

it isnt at all legalistic.

no matter what rules you follow we all will fail.

ultiamtelyall we need is gods grace.

thats legalistic?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Why do people who don't believe in God worry so much about where he is going to send them?

I don't worry about God.

But it puts a damper on conversation with people if they see me as doomed and bereft of any sense of morality simply because of my beliefs on the afterlife.

As you can see, then, I am VERY concerned about dialogue relevent to the here and now. I live on the same planet as fire-and-brimstone believers, so I call them out for being unskillful in their perspectives, motivations, and interactions with unbelievers. I'd like to work with them, but I also ought to be respected for my differences.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I wanted to make sure of your views so that we werent talking over each other. according to my faith none of us are perfect, we All deserve destruction, it only by Gods grace that we are saved, all we must do is accept it.

it isnt at all legalistic.

no matter what rules you follow we all will fail.

ultiamtelyall we need is gods grace.

thats legalistic?

Interesting. It seems as if you're concerned with how I see you. Now why is that......?

All right, I'll spill the beans.

Doesn't it royally suck being judged harshly for your theological views?

 

[tarasan]

I don't worry about God.

But it puts a damper on conversation with people if they see me as doomed and bereft of any sense of morality simply because of my beliefs on the afterlife.

As you can see, then, I am VERY concerned about dialogue relevent to the here and now. I live on the same planet as fire-and-brimstone believers, so I call them out for being unskillful in their perspectives, motivations, and interactions with unbelievers. I'd like to work with them, but I also ought to be respected for my differences.

btw theologically I cant condem anyone.....

i think your making very HUGE assumptions on my perspectives, motives and interactions with unbelievers especailly when you dont even know my whole theology.

 

[tarasan]

Interesting. It seems as if you're concerned with how I see you. Now why is that......?

All right, I'll spill the beans.

Doesn't it royally suck being judged harshly for your theological views?

I ultimately dont mind how you see me, I dont honestly care how someone I have never ments opinion of me, you have never seen me in real life, you dont know me.

I doesnt really royaly suck, people do it to me all the time, what really matters is that I search for the truth and I go with what I know, ultimately if people judge me and ridicule me for that then they are just as guilty as what they accuse me off.

although im sure such a statement was some kind of trap.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

btw theologically I cant condem anyone.....

Neither can I, and I don't.

i think your making very HUGE assumptions on my perspectives, motives and interactions with unbelievers especailly when you dont even know my whole theology.

After 18 pages of reading you argue with a lot of people here, I have a pretty good idea.

That is, unless you've been misleading.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I ultimately dont mind how you see me, I dont honestly care how someone I have never ments opinion of me, you have never seen me in real life, you dont know me.

Point taken.

I doesnt really royaly suck, people do it to me all the time, what really matters is that I search for the truth and I go with what I know, ultimately if people judge me and ridicule me for that then they are just as guilty as what they accuse me off.

And yet, you consistently bring up Scripture to defend why your God would torture somebody for eternity.....it's the classic "Hey, don't be mad at ME. I'm just the messenger. Repent or burn. It's your choice."

You berate sojourner for "twisting scripture" in order to make himself feel better, because you see your Scripture as exclusionary and above all other religious doctrine.

So, it royally sucks to tell you this, but your arguments come off as very judgemental and harsh. My dear, you do reap what you sow. If you find yourself in the middle of an angry crowd because you told them all they're screwed, what can I say?

although im sure such a statement was some kind of trap.

Don't flatter yourself.

 

[tarasan]

Point taken.

And yet, you consistently bring up Scripture to defend why your God would torture somebody for eternity.....it's the classic "Hey, don't be mad at ME. I'm just the messenger. Repent or burn. It's your choice."

You berate sojourner for "twisting scripture" in order to make himself feel better, because you see your Scripture as exclusionary and above all other religious doctrine.

So, it royally sucks to tell you this, but your arguments come off as very judgemental and harsh. My dear, you do reap what you sow. If you find yourself in the middle of an angry crowd because you told them all they're screwed, what can I say?

##

this is about my religion not yours, universalim ignores scripture that plainly states of a sort of hell, I cannot change that, and i am not willing to knowingling ignore scripture to make me feel good, if you have some amazing scriptural arguement which will convince me of universalism, let me here it, but nothing even remotely close to that has been brought here.

and when have i ever specified anyone is going to hell? ultimately Romans states that anyone who willingly calls out to God will be saved. this thread is not about who/who will nto be saved, if it where I would have made that statement long ago. This thread is about How a God could torture someone forever, and my statements have included me as well. I am not somehow an amazing guy who doesnt deserve to go to hell, I do it is only by Gods grace that I am saved.

I ultimately am no better than anyone else, I cannot judge or condem you only God can.

you have assumed alot about my views from such a narrow thread.