How certain are we that Jesus was historical?

[Bunyip]

I don't believe you realize what you've just said and that it makes no sense at all. I now understand why you couldn't understand what I'd said previously.
Let's just stop here shall we? Thanks. Be well.

I'll simplify.

I'm not discounting any of the evidence.

 

[Bunyip]

Old Badger

William Wallace would be a great example - lots of myth, but based on a real man. In Wallace's case the acts of several different men appear to be rolled into his mythology.

 

[Sapiens]

Same with George Washington, Francis Marion, John Henry, etc.

 

[oldbadger]

Old Badger

William Wallace would be a great example - lots of myth, but based on a real man. In Wallace's case the acts of several different men appear to be rolled into his mythology.

I like that a lot! Good analogy.

In the case of Wallace I don't know what we've got, probably oral trad, the mission, York, the execution?

Wallace might be stronger, historically... to Jesus? But close.....

 

[Apple Sugar]

Old Badger

William Wallace would be a great example - lots of myth, but based on a real man. In Wallace's case the acts of several different men appear to be rolled into his mythology.

Do yourself a great favor. Don't ever go to Scotland and spout that garbage.

 

[Apple Sugar]

I'll simplify.

I'm not discounting any of the evidence.

Oh my, that's just sad.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Topic title: How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
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Pretty certain, he was seen by the 5 million population of Israel and the Roman garrison for 3 long years, that's a lot of eyeballs and a lot of street cred.
He didn't hole up in some underground hideout-
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)

And-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him....the common people heard him gladly" (Matt 4:25, 12:37)
And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

Plus of course the ancient prophets foretold his coming-
"See, your king comes to you, riding on a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9, 500 BC)

 

[Apple Sugar]

That historians and others wrote of him is evidence itself.

Cornelius Tacitus,Suetonius,Pliny the Younger, who wrote of the Christians of the time. An odd thing to imagine so many would have risked worship under Roman rule and met martyrs deaths for a fiction.

Topic title: How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty certain, he was seen by the 5 million population of Israel and the Roman garrison for 3 long years, that's a lot of eyeballs and a lot of street cred.
He didn't hole up in some underground hideout-
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)

And-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him....the common people heard him gladly" (Matt 4:25, 12:37)
And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

Plus of course the ancient prophets foretold his coming-
"See, your king comes to you, riding on a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9, 500 BC)

 

[Bunyip]

Do yourself a great favor. Don't ever go to Scotland and spout that garbage.

What I said about Walllace is well understood in Scotland, go read a book and stop being rude. Look up Wallace and find out yourself instead of insulting me out of your ignorance. Wallace is a historical figure about whom many myths are attached. Any history book on him will confirm for you what I said.

 

[Bunyip]

Oh my, that's just sad.

You have reduced yourself to infantile trolling, what a shame.

I am not discounting any of the evidence.

 

[Bunyip]

Topic title: How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty certain, he was seen by the 5 million population of Israel and the Roman garrison for 3 long years, that's a lot of eyeballs and a lot of street cred.
He didn't hole up in some underground hideout-
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)

And-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him....the common people heard him gladly" (Matt 4:25, 12:37)
And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

Plus of course the ancient prophets foretold his coming-
"See, your king comes to you, riding on a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9, 500 BC)

Not one of those 5 million eye witness accounts exists - not a single one, zero. You are reffering to evidence that does not exist.

 

[Bunyip]

That historians and others wrote of him is evidence itself.

Cornelius Tacitus,Suetonius,Pliny the Younger, who wrote of the Christians of the time. An odd thing to imagine so many would have risked worship under Roman rule and met martyrs deaths for a fiction.

What? People risk death for fictions all the time - there are martyrs for all manner of faiths.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Not one of those 5 million eye witness accounts exists - not a single one, zero. You are reffering to evidence that does not exist.

27 separate books were written about Jesus (below) and later made into a boxed set and called the New Testament, how many more do you need?..

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
The Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Phillipians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Revelation

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

27 separate books were written about Jesus (below) and later made into a boxed set and called the New Testament, how many more do you need?..

That is a pitifully ignorant argument.

 

[oldbadger]

27 separate books were written about Jesus (below) and later made into a boxed set and called the New Testament, how many more do you need?..

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
The Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Phillipians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Revelation

.......... a Primary witness would be good.
The above help to bring a plausible case for HJ. ....... only

 

[Bunyip]

27 separate books were written about Jesus (below) and later made into a boxed set and called the New Testament, how many more do you need?..

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
The Acts
Romans
1 Corinthians
2 Corinthians
Galatians
Ephesians
Phillipians
Colossians
1 Thessalonians
2 Thessalonians
1 Timothy
2 Timothy
Titus
Philemon
Hebrews
James
1 Peter
2 Peter
1 John
2 John
3 John
Jude
Revelation

You cznt prove the bible with the bible, so just one primary source would be good.

 

[Ingledsva]

Topic title: How certain are we that Jesus was historical?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretty certain, he was seen by the 5 million population of Israel and the Roman garrison for 3 long years, that's a lot of eyeballs and a lot of street cred.
He didn't hole up in some underground hideout-
“I've spoken openly to the world..I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20)

And-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him....the common people heard him gladly" (Matt 4:25, 12:37)
And he pulled crowds of over 4000 and 5000 at two gigs alone (Matt 15:32, Matt 14:13)

Plus of course the ancient prophets foretold his coming-
"See, your king comes to you, riding on a donkey" (Zechariah 9:9, 500 BC)

As we have said before - there is no proof of "5 million" seeing. No proof of huge crowds seeing him, etc.


And as for Zechariah - Why - Why - Why - do Christians keep trying to turn flowery Jewish war stories, into prophecies of Jesus?

Zec 1:7 Upon the four and twentieth day of the eleventh month, which is the month Sebat, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,


Zec 1:12 Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?

Zec 1:16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

Zec 6:10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;


NOTE THAT - SAME DAY!


Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;


Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:


That BRANCH - JOSHUA son of Josedech.


Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Zec 6:14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.

Zec 7:1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;

Zec 9:3 And Tyrus did build herself a strong hold, and heaped up silver as the dust, and fine gold as the mire of the streets.
Zec 9:4 Behold, the Lord will cast her out, and he will smite her power in the sea; and she shall be devoured with fire.


Tyrus/Tyre was a rich Phoenician city and trading port on the sea.


The whole thing takes place at that time - it is not a prophecy of Jesus.



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[fantome profane]

27 separate books were written about Jesus (below) and later made into a boxed set and called the New Testament, how many more do you need?..

Do you know what an "eye witness account" is? Could you give us a definition of "eye witness account"? What does that phrase mean to you?



Now, how many eye witness accounts do we have of Jesus?

 

[Ingledsva]

That historians and others wrote of him is evidence itself.

Cornelius Tacitus,Suetonius,Pliny the Younger, who wrote of the Christians of the time. An odd thing to imagine so many would have risked worship under Roman rule and met martyrs deaths for a fiction.

And how exactly - do later people - that were not there - writing about a legend they heard - make the legend true?




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[Jayhawker Soule]

And how exactly - do later people - that were not there - writing about a legend they heard - make the legend true?

That was a bit of a self-serving statement.