How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[muhammad_isa]

.. Anyone who sits and reads through the Bible will notice that "God" changes his mind an awful lot. Nothing is coherent or consistent throughout the whole book. And we see the biggest changes, of course, from the OT to NT .. Judeo-Christian religion is basically just absorbing various ideas from various other religious cultures..

Really? You can be certain about that, can you?

Is your avatar "God" .. or what ??

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Really? You can be certain about that, can you?

Is your avatar "God" .. or what ??

Yes, I am certain about that. I spent 30 years reading it. And I've spent the last 16 years studying world religions.

As far as my avatar, no, that is not god. Buddhists don't worship anything, nor do they believe in a creator god. Buddha was a man who achieved enlightenment by his own persistence, and taught us the same way. He never claimed he was divine, nor did he ever claim that he was inspired by divine beings. Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Buddhists don't worship anything,..

I can't agree with you there..
What does it mean to "worship" something?
So you're a Buddhist, just because you think it's 'cool'? Nothing to do with truth?

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I can't agree with you there..
What does it mean to "worship" something?
So you're a Buddhist, just because you think it's 'cool'? Nothing to do with truth?

First, if you think Buddhists worship anything, you need to go back and study Buddhism again. The Buddha was quite clear on this point, that there is nothing in all existence worth worshiping. Now, if you're using 'worship' in the sense of paying reverence to, then yes, Buddhist pay reverence to not only the Buddha, but the various Buddhist 'saints'. And I don't know where you got the idea that I'm a Buddhist because I think it's 'cool', and it not having to do with truth, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I've studied Buddhism, as well as most world religions, for the last 16 years. It took my divorce two years ago to really examine myself, and what I believed, because up until that point I was a Christian, who's faith was fast slipping, and had been for about two years prior. So I took up the study, again, of philosophy, as well as going back over various religions, while examining myself. In the end, I determined that Buddhism was the right choice for me, as it fit my worldview, and what I believed and thought. I did not just convert to Buddhism on a whim, it was a long and arduous process of philosophical study and self-examination.

EDIT: You seem to have a problem grasping concepts in Buddhism. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask, and not just me, there are several more Buddhists here.

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. if you're using 'worship' in the sense of paying reverence to, then yes, Buddhist pay reverence to not only the Buddha, but the various Buddhist 'saints'.

So .. there's nothing "in existence" worth worshipping / praising / following according to Buddhism, you say?
Then why follow a man (or legend, and so called saints), that tell you there is nothing "in existence" worth following??

I determined that Buddhism was the right choice for me, as it fit my worldview, and what I believed and thought.

Your "worldview" .. what you imagine is truth, not Divine revelation .. Why is Buddhism "true" for you, then? You agree with the philosophy .. the culture, perhaps .. and you're quite happy to be surrounded by graven images, feeling that meditation is teaching you something that you didn't know before?

 

[sincerly]

don't worry i'm not expecting much from your posts

don't worry, i don't expect you to understand

You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

the men who flew into the WTC had the same idea...
excellent.

Those were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

 

[outhouse]

You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

men wrote the bible over a thousand years in the making.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

So .. there's nothing "in existence" worth worshipping / praising / following according to Buddhism, you say?
Then why follow a man (or legend, and so called saints), that tell you there is nothing "in existence" worth following??

Your're confusing what I've said, and you're also confusing 'following' and 'worshiping'. I never said there's nothing worth following. All I said is that there's nothing worth worshiping. There are no creator gods in Buddhism that are to be worshiped. We follow the Buddha's teaching like a person would follow the teachings of a philosopher. There's a big difference.

Your "worldview" .. what you imagine is truth, not Divine revelation .. Why is Buddhism "true" for you, then? You agree with the philosophy .. the culture, perhaps .. and you're quite happy to be surrounded by graven images, feeling that meditation is teaching you something that you didn't know before?

Why would a worldview have to be based on divine revelation? I see no reason at all to believe in any creator gods who handed out laws through divine revelations, for the very reasons that I do not believe any such gods exist, which makes divine revelation kind of pointless. Not to mention that all the divine revelations I've seen stand in stark contrast to reason. Buddhism is true for me because it makes sense, it's spiritual without all the religious superstitions. And not all Buddhists are "surrounded by graven images". Of courses, that implies idol worship, which no Buddhist engages in. To imply such is to be mistaken about what Buddhists believe, which is common among people, hence, the need to ask questions about something one doesn't understand, instead of making generalizations.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We follow the Buddha's teaching like a person would follow the teachings of a philosopher. There's a big difference.

Is there, though?
If everybody became Buddhists, they would all be following a man .. a man which they clearly thought was SUPERIOR to everybody else .. why would that be then? Isn't a kind of worship to put somebody up on a pedestal like that, with no other reason than it suited their "worldview" ?

..I do not believe any such gods exist

Mmm .. so Buddhists are atheists, then!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Is there, though?
If everybody became Buddhists, they would all be following a man .. a man which they clearly thought was SUPERIOR to everybody else .. why would that be then? Isn't a kind of worship to put somebody up on a pedestal like that, with no other reason than it suited their "worldview" ?

Do we think the Buddha stood head above everyone else? Yes, but this is due to his own work and persistence. What he achieved, he taught us how to do the same thing. It's not like a prophet in the Abrahamic religions, where one has to be specially chosen by God to be. Everyone has the power and potential to become Buddha. He just showed us the way.

Mmm .. so Buddhists are atheists, then!

Not so much atheist, as non-theists. Buddhists don't deny the existence of various deities, we just don't believe they are creator gods, all-powerful, handing out blessings and punishments to those who follow them or not. They're just like us, subject to the same laws, they're just on a higher plane of existence, and will one day again be humans. In Buddhism, the human realm is just one of six realms of existence, and the only one in which full enlightenment can be attained. This is why the Buddha said he was superior to any and all gods.

 

[waitasec]

You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

and what makes your post erroneous proof?
faith? :biglaugh:

Those were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

ask those parents who's children died by having their meds kept from them...
they got this idea from this "truthful" tripe.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

God, at least from the Abrahamic viewpoint, makes no sense. I would rather believe man, with the use of reason and logic, over ancient "divine revelation" that is outdated, and stands in stark contrast with modern advances of science. There's no reason to accept the idea of a creator god, when we know more about how the world works than the ancients did. And the morality of modern man is even more ethical than that of Bible times.

Those were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

But they were during the Crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts, the early Reformation when Protestants and Catholics were killing each other, and even Christians today think it's ok to kill those who don't agree with them, not all, but some. The more hard-lined, dogmatic, and conservative one gets, the more one tends toward violence to push their views.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Do we think the Buddha stood head above everyone else? Yes, but this is due to his own work and persistence.
. . .
This is why the Buddha said he was superior to any and all gods.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Apparently there's something you don't understand. And you're not making it clear exactly what that is.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

and what makes your post erroneous proof?
faith? :biglaugh:

Those scriptural verses by which your post/claims were shown to be erroneous. Which you failed to refute, but only re-stated your erroneous claim.
Faith alone(apart from what GOD has said) can be associated with truth or error.

Those(who flew into the WTC) were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

ask those parents who's children died by having their meds kept from them...
they got this idea from this "truthful" tripe.

Just because one chooses to believe a lie due to their own erroneous misinterpretation doesn't make the source(BIBLE or other source from which it came from) "tripe".

Jim Jones, David Koresh, et al. will not be the last to seduce many with their mis-interpretations of the Scriptures. Even to those "claims" of yours as presented in the posts here.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Those(who flew into the WTC) were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

That's rubbish!

Just because one chooses to believe a lie due to their own erroneous misinterpretation doesn't make the source(BIBLE or other source from which it came from) "tripe".

That's better..

 

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by sincerly
You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.



Those scriptural verses by which your post/claims were shown to be erroneous. Which you failed to refute, but only re-stated your erroneous claim.

what are you talking about? what scriptural verses?

Faith alone(apart from what GOD has said) can be associated with truth or error.

imagine that

Those(who flew into the WTC) were not getting their idea/instructions from the Truthful Scriptures of the BIBLE, but from a book which had claims much like those of your erroneous claims.(Ehrman's)

yet you conveniently over look mark 16:18
excellent...
christians poop smells just like every other religious persons does, didn't you know that?

Just because one chooses to believe a lie due to their own erroneous misinterpretation doesn't make the source(BIBLE or other source from which it came from) "tripe".

you make it seem as though people intentionally want to misinterpret the infallible scripture...

Jim Jones, David Koresh, et al. will not be the last to seduce many with their mis-interpretations of the Scriptures. Even to those "claims" of yours as presented in the posts here.

you're right and your defending that way of thinking...?
:tsk:
shame shame on you...

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
You shouldn't "expect me" to agree with your claims in your erroneous posts. Nor can I "understand" why one chooses to believe man over the Creator GOD.

God, at least from the Abrahamic viewpoint, makes no sense. I would rather believe man, with the use of reason and logic, over ancient "divine revelation" that is outdated, and stands in stark contrast with modern advances of science. There's no reason to accept the idea of a creator god, when we know more about how the world works than the ancients did. And the morality of modern man is even more ethical than that of Bible times.

To me, a Creator GOD makes the only sense. Here's why.
First, All I see of the earth and heavens just didn't occur from nothing. That's not logical. Neither does the spontaneous beginnings of a life form occur from non-life forms. Then to top that off, that single life form continues to evolve upwards into multiple celled forms to evolve into multiple forms of flora and fauna.
Sorry, but that "logic" is the man-made "illogical theory".

Now to move on to the "Abrahamic viewpoint". There were some happenings on this earth from the initial Creation of all things which one sees---including mankind---until Abraham came on the scene.

Little is revealed from Creation to the Flood of Noah's time. And by Biblical chronology, that occurred about 1656 years after Creation week. and about 100 years after the Flood(2244 B.C.), those people were scattered from the tower of Babel they had built into all the world. Remember, all who were on the ARK knew of GOD and from the witnesses of two---a subject was established. Adam was alive with Methuselah(243 years) and Lamech(46 years). They were living with Noah for 600 years(Methuselah) and 590 years(Lamech). Noah and Shem both were alive at the time of Abraham. Noah for 60 years and Shem outlived Abraham.

Abraham was called out from his idol worshiping family by GOD to be a "blessing to all families of the earth".(Gen.12:1-3) To Isaac, (In Gen.26:3-5),GOD said, "Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.""
GOD made that promise to Isaac about 1800 B.C. and Abimelech, king of the philistines, knew it was Adultery to take another's wife.Also, acknowledged the "Lord".
Moses lead the Israelites from Egypt About 1544 B.C.
Solomon was reigning about 1000 B.C. All the surrounding Nations kings and the queen of Sheba visited during those years.

Therefore, a knowledge of the TRUE GOD was known from the Tower of Babel as well as the reign of Solomon.
That doesn't mean that they acrpted it, but those nations were aware of the teachings.

From wikipedia--Re: Hinduism: "The earliest evidence for prehistoric religion in India date back to the late Neolithic in the early Harappan period (5500–2600 BCE).[20][21] The beliefs and practices of the pre-classical era (1500–500 BCE) are called the "historical Vedic religion". The Vedic religion shows influence by Proto-Indo-European religion. The oldest Veda is the Rigveda, dated to 1700–1100 BCE.[22]

As one can see, that "pre-historic religion" was from those people who were scattered from the "Tower of Babel" .

Paul wrote in Rom.1:17-22, 28, "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, ...And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

Just as the people of today corrupt the TRUTH of the TRUE GOD by their own evil/contrary to GOD---"imaginations".

Thanks for you patience. But That's how I see the Scriptures. That "serpant" is still spreading the falseness---" Ye shall be as gods" and "Ye shall not surely die".

But they were during the Crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts, the early Reformation when Protestants and Catholics were killing each other, and even Christians today think it's ok to kill those who don't agree with them, not all, but some. The more hard-lined, dogmatic, and conservative one gets, the more one tends toward violence to push their views.

Yes, man's inhumanity to man will continue until the end of time.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

To me, a Creator GOD makes the only sense. Here's why.
First, All I see of the earth and heavens just didn't occur from nothing. That's not logical. Neither does the spontaneous beginnings of a life form occur from non-life forms. Then to top that off, that single life form continues to evolve upwards into multiple celled forms to evolve into multiple forms of flora and fauna.
Sorry, but that "logic" is the man-made "illogical theory".

I don't necessarily have a problem with a "first cause", but I don't think such a thing has to be equated with a god. There are many other options, and all more rational, than ascribing a first cause to the Abrahamic god.

Then you go into Biblical teachings as if they are a priori fact that everyone should just accept without any question, on nothing other than what it says of itself. To me, this is illogical, ludicrous, and self-deceiving. There is no logic in accepting the Bible just because it says we should, without any evidence for it to back it up.

Just as the people of today corrupt the TRUTH of the TRUE GOD by their own evil/contrary to GOD---"imaginations".

If the only reason you say this is because of the Bible, that is no reason at all. Why accept something only because it is supposed divine revelation from god, with no supporting objective truth? If that's the case, why not accept the Quran, the Vedas, or anything else that claims to be the direct revelatory word of god? It makes no sense.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If the only reason you say this is because of the Bible, that is no reason at all. Why accept something only because it is supposed divine revelation from god, with no supporting objective truth? If that's the case, why not accept the Quran, the Vedas, or anything else that claims to be the direct revelatory word of god?

Well I say the same thing .. and not just because of the Bible .. I believe in all the true revelations from our Creator.

PS. The Vedas is an exceptionally old text .. it certainly wasn't originally written with "pen & paper"