How did Satan get to the garden of Eden?

[fallingblood]

did god know he was to sacrifice his son at this point?

Probably not.

the definition of god, for me is different than yours...
and i think it's different from most...but that isn't to say that your idea of god isn't better....

Actually many believe that God has either limited his powers, or simply isn't as powerful as some believe. Conservative and Reform Judaism have such an idea, as well as a number of Protestant sects.

what do you mean not really?
did you know what no meant the 1st time your heard it?

We are not talking about a normal human. We are talking about one who was created as a man. There is no reason to suggest that Adam would have had a childlike mentality.

Adam was told that there was a consequence. That implies God would have expected Adam to understand such. There is no implication otherwise.

if one considers why there was a tree of eternal life that was not forbidden
and then considers why god didn't already create man with knowledge to begin with, it makes perfect sense.

Who says that man wasn't created with knowledge? When the tree is spoken about, it is suggested that the knowledge gained would make one God like. It isn't just a normal knowledge.

So it only makes perfect sense if you want to look at it in that certain way.

[/quote]
why did god create man unaware in the 1st place?[/QUOTE]Who says he was unaware? The tree of knowledge isn't just knowing what is right or wrong. It also meant one would have God like knowledge.

 

[waitasec]

Probably not.
Actually many believe that God has either limited his powers, or simply isn't as powerful as some believe. Conservative and Reform Judaism have such an idea, as well as a number of Protestant sects.

maybe we can discuss this somewhere else...
seems like an interesting topic...for me that is

We are not talking about a normal human. We are talking about one who was created as a man. There is no reason to suggest that Adam would have had a childlike mentality.

experience is what makes one mature..does it not? so to imply that
adam was created as a man with experience doesn't gel with being ignorant of good and evil.

Adam was told that there was a consequence. That implies God would have expected Adam to understand such.

which is why it doesn't make sense...the writers of this story didn't consider the psychology of it all.

Who says that man wasn't created with knowledge?

of good and evil.

When the tree is spoken about, it is suggested that the knowledge gained would make one God like. It isn't just a normal knowledge.

right it was the knowledge of good and evil...knowledge is not an exclusive word...if you are not knowledgeable in why a recording engineer sets up his microphones does that make you stupid...? no, it makes you un-knowledgeable in the ways a recording engineer works...

So it only makes perfect sense if you want to look at it in that certain way.

sure if you choose to ignore the obvious...
it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil

Who says he was unaware? The tree of knowledge isn't just knowing what is right or wrong. It also meant one would have God like knowledge.

as god didn't want adam and eve to know the difference between good and evil

 

[Thief]

thats what happens when one tries to turn a simple truth into a complex one...

as i said...it's easy if one doesn't make it what it isn't...

So Genesis is truth?

 

[waitasec]

So Genesis is truth?

the truth being the entire creation/fall story is a metaphor...
nothing more nothing less.

a simple story for simple people...
today no one really has an excuse to live that simply...we know a lot more about the micro world an the cosmos than they did.

 

[Thief]

the truth being the entire creation/fall story is a metaphor...
nothing more nothing less.

a simple...story for simple people...
today no one really has an excuse to live that simply...we know a lot more about the micro world an the cosmos than they did.

So God and Man have never met?
And the simple story...as metaphor...has no value at all?

 

[waitasec]

So God and Man have never met?
And the simple story...as metaphor...has no value at all?

not in todays world.

 

[Thief]

not in todays world.

Still trying to slither under a rock?

 

[waitasec]

Still trying to slither under a rock?

what do you mean?

 

[Thief]

An evasion on your part....

not in todays world.

 

[waitasec]

An evasion on your part....

excuse me, but are you not living in todays world?

 

[Thief]

excuse me, but are you not living in todays world?

Excuse me the topic is an event that happened long ago.

 

[waitasec]

Excuse me the topic is an event that happened long ago.

well not really...this particular event never happened...it is a metaphor for those who did not know what we know in todays world...

 

[muhammad_isa]

..are you trying to scare me?

Not at all..
I'm just telling you how it is

There is no point in coercion .. a person's heart cannot be enlightened in this manner
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8 Allah! There is no God save Him. His are the most beautiful names.

9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses ?

10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off.
Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.

11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!

12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.

13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.

14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no God save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance.

15 Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden,
that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve).
-Al Qur'an -Ta ha

 

[waitasec]

Not at all..
I'm just telling you how it is

wishful thinking is not evidence...for what you claim is.
wishful thinking is evidence for an erroneous belief.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..wishful thinking is evidence for an erroneous belief..

You're a very cynical, negative person aren't you..
What are you afraid of?

You may say 'nothing', but this would be dishonest, imo .. everybody's afraid of something .. I know I am

 

[waitasec]

You're a very cynical, negative person aren't you..
What are you afraid of?

You may say 'nothing', but this would be dishonest, imo .. everybody's afraid of something .. I know I am

no i'm just sick and tired of people who make uninformed decisions based on an erroneous belief...it's time for humanity to move forward...

i'm afraid of my freedoms being taken away...

 

[outhouse]

Not at all..
I'm just telling you how it is

There is no point in coercion .. a person's heart cannot be enlightened in this manner
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8 Allah! There is no God save Him. His are the most beautiful names.

9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses ?

10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off.
Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.

11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!

12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.

13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.

14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no God save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance.

15 Lo! the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden,
that every soul may be rewarded for that which it striveth (to achieve).
-Al Qur'an -Ta ha

So

was it satan or not in the tree?

if so, what would you bring foward to give your view credibility?

 

[Kroft]

An angel who developed pride became became satan. Angels are free moral agents like humans. He challenged gods sovreignty and rather than destroy him god allows time to prove satan is a liar. millions of other angels are watching and thousands of years is nothing to spirit creatures. to us it's a long time but not to angels. Gods sovregnty is the issue...does god have a right to rule? jesus said his kingdom (GOVERNMEN) is not from this earth...its heavenly.

 

[waitasec]

An angel who developed pride became became satan. Angels are free moral agents like humans. He challenged gods sovreignty and rather than destroy him god allows time to prove satan is a liar. millions of other angels are watching and thousands of years is nothing to spirit creatures. to us it's a long time but not to angels. Gods sovregnty is the issue...does god have a right to rule? jesus said his kingdom (GOVERNMEN) is not from this earth...its heavenly.

interesting...so YOU know more that satan?

 

[Thief]

well not really...this particular event never happened...it is a metaphor for those who did not know what we know in todays world...

So Adam never walked with God?
Anyone at all?....ever?
Still seeking the last word on a topic you don't believe in?