How do Baha’is see atheists?

[Trailblazer]

Strange stuff, a Baha'i denying that this God of theirs can speak from the clouds or sky or even speak at all.

34 While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

I never said that God cannot speak to Messengers, I said they are the only ones that God speaks to.
Jesus was a Messenger of God so God spoke to Him. I am not saying I believe the cloud story in the NT, but I believe that God spoke to Jesus.

 

[CG Didymus]

How the heck did this thread that is asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists get so many people here that are not Baha'is?

Why does your friend accuse me? There were eight non-Baha'is responding on the first page. I didn't post anything until page six and that was to this post...

Then God is not all powerful.

Until their prophet, the person who took the title of Baha'u'llah, there was no manifestation/messenger that wrote down what God had told them. Why would an all-knowing God do that? Did he want the message to get distorted and misinterpreted? Apparently. So, their God might be all-powerful, just not too smart.

So again, why would an all-knowing God do that? Knowing that the people will write it wrong, and others will misinterpret it?

Oh, and Baha'is have shown what they think of Atheists in several of the threads started by Baha'is in these last few years.

 

[F1fan]

I don't know if God could speak from the clouds.

Well, if God is on a plane, sure.

Only God knows if He can, but it is a moot point since God has chosen not to do that.

So it's a fact that God exists? Tell us more. Fictional characters can't choose to do anything, right?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Only God knows if He can, but it is a moot point since God has chosen not to do that.

How could an entity which exists only in your imagination (and claimed by an uneducated 19th Century Iranian), speak from the clouds? Did he give any evidence for God or himself being a messenger of this God? Fake claims do not impress intelligent people.

How the heck did this thread that is asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists get so many people here that are not Baha'is?

Since the thread talks about atheists, what is wrong if atheists express their views?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why does your friend accuse me?

Nobody accused you of anything but if you choose not to believe that nobody can make you believe it.

So again, why would an all-knowing God do that? Knowing that the people will write it wrong, and others will misinterpret it?

I already told you it was part of God's Plan. Of course God knew that would happen, God is All-Knowing. But it was part of God's Plan from the very beginning of time. It does not matter now since the Book has been unsealed by Baha'u'llah, so now everyone can understand everything in the Bible that matters if they refer to the Baha'i Writings.

Oh, and Baha'is have shown what they think of Atheists in several of the threads started by Baha'is in these last few years.

I can only tell you what I think of atheists , I cannot speak for any other Baha'is.
I like atheists and I consider them more intelligent than most believers, which is why they are normally more highly educated.

My latest dating prospect is an atheist and he is the only man I have even liked on any dating site since he is highly educated and intelligent and he cares about the things that matter in this world, such as climate change and the falling down of the American politics. It doesn't bother him that I am a believer since I have no interest in converting him, but unfortunately for me I don't think he is up for as many cats as I have.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, if God is on a plane, sure.

God has no need to ride in a plane, or come to earth for that matter.

So it's a fact that God exists? Tell us more. Fictional characters can't choose to do anything, right?

I have said repeatedly that it will never be a fact that God exists since it can never be proven that God exists..
All we have is evidence but evidence is not proof.

Just because God is not a fact that does not mean God is fictional. To say that would be the fallacy of black and white thinking.

 

[F1fan]

God has no need to ride in a plane, or come to earth for that matter.

So you know God personally and he told you?

I have said repeatedly that it will never be a fact that God exists since it can never be proven that God exists..

Then how do you know what God can or can't do if existence can't be established? You could make up anything, yes?

All we have is evidence but evidence is not proof.

You need proof to know any attributes of something, right?

Just because God is not a fact that does not mean God is fictional.

Well then all we can do is guess, yes? Maybe, maybe not.

To say that would be the fallacy of black and white thinking.

Still guessing, black, white, grey.

 

[Trailblazer]

How could an entity which exists only in your imagination (and claimed by an uneducated 19th Century Iranian), speak from the clouds? Did he give any evidence for God or himself being a messenger of this God? Fake claims do not impress intelligent people.

God does not exist only in my imagination, God exists in reality. God existsed long before Baha'u'llah came to reveal Him, ever heard of the Bible?

I have already delineated the evidence for Baha'u'llah many times so I don't plan to repeat myself again.
I will only say it again -- evidence is not proof. There is no proof that God exists or has any Messengers.

Since the thread talks about atheists, what is wrong if atheists express their views?

I never said there was anything wrong with that. @Truthseeker misconstrued the purpose of the thread.

 

[Truthseeker]

I never said there was anything wrong with that. @Truthseeker misconstrued the purpose of the thread.

I have a poor memory. Point me to the post where I misconstrued the purpose of this thread. I'm sure it's there, but I don't remember.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you know God personally and he told you?

No, but I can deduce that from the evidence. If an omnipotent had a need to come to earth we would see Him here.

Then how do you know what God can or can't do if existence can't be established? You could make up anything, yes?

I said that it will never be a fact that God exists since it can never be proven that God exists. That means that humans cannot prove that God exists.
I did not say God could not prove He exists. Baha'u'llah wrote that God could prove He exists to everyone if wanted to.

You need proof to know any attributes of something, right?

I did not say I know any attributes, I believe God has certain attributes.

Well then all we can do is guess, yes? Maybe, maybe not.

I do not suggest that anyone guesses on something this important.

Still guessing, black, white, grey.

I am not guessing. I believe that God is real even though that cannot be proven as a fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have a poor memory. Point me to the post where I misconstrued the purpose of this thread. I'm sure it's there, but I don't remember.

How do Baha’is see atheists?

'Islam is wrong', 'Christianity is wrong', means Jesus and Muhammad are fakes, then why do you have them as manifestations of Allah? No, it does not mean that Jesus and Muhammad are fakes. It means that the religions of Christianity and Islam have been corrupted by man over time. Why do you...

www.religiousforums.com

You said: How the heck did this thread that is asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists get so many people here that are not Baha'is?
Reread the OP. This was not a thread asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists.

 

[Truthseeker]

@Trailblazer, My goodness, my answer where I conceded that William Sears was right about a lot of verses in Micah based on your citations of verses is gone. It was deleted along with others in the forum meltdown.

 

[Trailblazer]

@Trailblazer, My goodness, my answer where I conceded that William Sears was right about a lot of verses in Micah based on your citations of verses is gone. It was deleted along with others in the forum meltdown.

This is not good. That was a long post and I am sure you spent a lot if time on it.

 

[F1fan]

No, but I can deduce that from the evidence. If an omnipotent had a need to come to earth we would see Him here.

So you can deduce what God can do, but not that he exists. How is that not made up?

I said that it will never be a fact that God exists since it can never be proven that God exists. That means that humans cannot prove that God exists.

It also means no one can say what God is, what God can do, what God can't do, or anything. All you can do is guess, and how is that useful?

I did not say God could not prove He exists.

But you tell us all about what God can or can't do, so why not this?

Baha'u'llah wrote that God could prove He exists to everyone if wanted to.

So what? Couldn't he be making it up just like you do?

I did not say I know any attributes, I believe God has certain attributes.

You don't say you believe, you write in affirmative statements which suggest fact. That is deceptive. So everything you write is your opinion?

I do not suggest that anyone guesses on something this important.

But you don't have proof, and your evidence is weak, so what you do is guessing.

I am not guessing. I believe that God is real even though that cannot be proven as a fact.

Just your opinion. Where is the evidence and argument that your opinion is well thought out?

 

[Truthseeker]

ou said: How the heck did this thread that is asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists get so many people here that are not Baha'is?
Reread the OP. This was not a thread asking Baha'is to answer a question about atheists.

Were you asking others what they thought Baha'is thought of atheists? it didn't look like that to me, and surely you can see how I wouldn't understand that. That title to this thread is ambiguous.

 

[Trailblazer]

Were you asking others what they thought Baha'is thought of atheists? it didn't look like that to me, and surely you can see how I wouldn't understand that. That title to this thread is ambiguous.

I was not asking anything. I was only presenting how Baha'is from Reddit see atheists and how I see atheists.

 

[Truthseeker]

I couldn't remember that far back about the Reddit part of the post, this was much later than when the post was started. I hadn't participated up to that reply.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you can deduce what God can do, but not that he exists. How is that not made up?

I can deduce what God can do if He exists by looking at the evidence.
If an omnipotent God exists and has a need to come to earth we would see God here.

It also means no one can say what God is, what God can do, what God can't do, or anything. All you can do is guess, and how is that useful?

We can have a belief about all that based on scriptures, even though it cannot be proven.
A belief is not a guess, since it is based upon something concrete, scriptures revealed by a Messenger.

But you tell us all about what God can or can't do, so why not this?

Because Baha'u'llah wrote that God could prove He exists, and that also makes sense to me that an omnipotent God could do that.

So what? Couldn't he be making it up just like you do?

Why would God make such a thing up? Why would I make it up?
It makes sense that an omnipotent God could prove that He exists to everyone if He wanted to.

You don't say you believe, you write in affirmative statements which suggest fact. That is deceptive. So everything you write is your opinion?

It goes without saying that everything I write about God or Messengers is what I believe since I have said repeatedly that it is not a proven fact.

But you don't have proof, and your evidence is weak, so what you do is guessing.

My evidence appears weak to you, but my evidence appears strong to be. That is why it is not like guessing.

Just your opinion. Where is the evidence and argument that your opinion is well thought out?

It has been well thought out by me. I can only explain how I thought it out but that won't be satisfactory for people who think differently.

 

[CG Didymus]

So it's a fact that God exists? Tell us more. Fictional characters can't choose to do anything, right?

God appears and speaks in both the Hebrew Bible and the NT. So, fictional characters can do most anything. All a religious story has to do is say it and some people will believe it. What's weird about some Baha'is is that they will call those stories in the Bible and the NT fiction, yet the character, God, in the fictional story real?

I've quoted the story about Elijah calling on God to send fire from heaven to consume his sacrifice. In the story God does. And the purpose of that was to show that he is real. The god of the prophets of Baal did nothing. Showing that their God was not real. So, where is the Baha'i that has a God that can prove himself real by actually doing something. It's too much like the prophets of Baal, that when called upon, their god couldn't do anything, because he wasn't real... He was made-up.

Now how does a Baha'i interpret that story? As fictional? If so, that makes the "proof" of God sending fire is fictional and not real but made-up.

So you can deduce what God can do, but not that he exists. How is that not made up?

Yes, God could do anything he wanted to... like speak and appear to everybody, but he chooses not to. Almost as if he's not real.

 

[CG Didymus]

It's too late for damage control. Gays are still prejudiced against by Baha'i'llah even though gays can marry, so it's more than "sex out of wedlock". And why is sex out of wedlock an issue at all for a revelation by God that is concerned about bigger issues, like world unity?

The claim is that God doesn't want people to be homosexuals. To God it is an abomination. God tried his hardest to get rid of them by having them stoned to death. That didn't work. His new plan, that is sure to work, is to have them get therapy. But, if they don't change their ways, then God is prepared to take extreme measures against them and take their voting rights away.

But when have any of these religious moral laws ever worked? Gay sex, straight sex outside of marriage, sex with oneself, it's gonna happen. And it's gonna happen even with people that belong to some religion that says they believe in God. It's gonna happen with the leaders of those religions. God's supposed laws against sexual practices are not followed. With the Baha'i Faith, the good news, for people with a little money, they can fornicate all they want and just pay a fine. I guess it gets doubled, though. And then there's some humiliating torment in the world to come. But that still beats getting stoned to death.

God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice: nine mithqals of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence. Such is the penalty which He Who is the Lord of Names hath assigned them in this world; and in the world to come He hath ordained for them a humiliating torment.​

Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 37​