How Does a Jew Attain Salvation?

[metis]

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:13-20)

The foundation of the Church is built upon not what was revealed to Peter but how it was revealed to Peter.

To me, I think that it's most likely probable that Jesus saw something in Peter that he felt would make him at least a good spiritual leader in the long run. Therefore, I think "rock" may refer to both the issue of an ideal faith and also what Jesus may have come to believe should be Peter's upcoming role. There has to be as reason why he changed Simon's name.

 

[Intojoy]

Who's righteousness is required for an eternal family relationship with the God of Abraham Isaac and Israel?

My righteousness or is it the very righteousness of God Himself?

This is the soteriology of Paul, that the righteousness of God has been made available by imputation thru the propitiatory act of the death, burial and resurrection of the Jewish Messiah.

From a gentile believer's perspective a Jew needs the righteousness of God for salvation.

Nicodemus' theology was that any Jew already had salvation based on their ethnicity.

Nicodemus had attained 4 of 6 "new births" when Yeshua taught him he needed to be born again.

Nicodemus asks his question of how can I be born anew when I am old? His question indicated he understood the concept of new birth and indeed according to first century Pharisaic Judaism the new birth happens at the bar mitzvah, marriage, becoming a rabbi and becoming a teacher of a rabbinical school. Yeshua addresses him as a teacher of Israel.

The lesson was that mere Jewish ethnicity, being born a Jew did not qualify one's entrance into the kingdom of heaven but that one must be born of the Spirit of Jehovah.

From my gentile believing perspective and from my studies of the Hebrew Scriptures and the Berit Haddasha (the writings of the Jewish New Testament)

It is clear that one must have the righteousness of God by imputation and not by human effort both gentile and Jew alike.

 

[Flankerl]

Berit Haddasha

Christians are so adorable when they hide their Christianity as something Jewish.

Never gets old. Though it makes you miss the traditional Christians who'd just wanted to murder you. At least they were honest.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Nicodemus' theology was that any Jew already had salvation based on their ethnicity.

Wrong! You don't know Nicodemus theology. Wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact that so so very, very wrong that almost nothing else you said should be said until you reconsider that.

 

[Intojoy]

Wrong! You don't know Nicodemus theology. Wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact that so so very, very wrong that almost nothing else you said should be said until you reconsider that.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No kiddin', and thanks for your answer.

 

[roger1440]

How do the Jews attain salvation? Simple. The answer ls the contents of the Ark of the Covenant. Seems I'm not as smart as I thought. It took me about a month to come up with an answer.

 

[Intojoy]

No kiddin', and thanks for your answer.

 

[atpollard]

Wrong! You don't know Nicodemus theology. Wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact that so so very, very wrong that almost nothing else you said should be said until you reconsider that.

While powerfully emphatic, I found your response a little light on details.
I wouldn't mind a hint about why you feel he was wrong ... especially THAT wrong.

 

[atpollard]

How do the Jews attain salvation? Simple. The answer ls the contents of the Ark of the Covenant. Seems I'm not as smart as I thought. It took me about a month to come up with an answer.

Was salvation unavailable before Moses?
Do they need to obey the commandments, or is having the tablets enough?
What about all that really interesting stuff for burnt offerings and incense and red heffers and such?
Can they skip all the regulations in Deuteronomy?

So many questions.
The devil is always in the details.

 

[Brickjectivity]

While powerfully emphatic, I found your response a little light on details.
I wouldn't mind a hint about why you feel he was wrong ... especially THAT wrong.

Until he provides his reasoning all I can do is disagree emphatically.

 

[Intojoy]

Christians are so adorable when they hide their Christianity as something Jewish.

Never gets old. Though it makes you miss the traditional Christians who'd just wanted to murder you. At least they were honest.

Where does Yeshua anywhere call for the execution of Jews?

Or Paul?

Or the Jewish disciples?

It was the Gentiles who crucified Yeshua not the Jews.

Here's my favorite quote from Paul:

“Yea, it hath been their good pleasure; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, they owe it to them also to minister unto them in carnal things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:27‬ ‭ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/rom.15.27.asv

 

[roger1440]

Was salvation unavailable before Moses?

Salvation was always available to the Jews, even before Moses’s time. Moses was a Law giver, not Law writer. Note that the Ten Commandments are written in stone. Being written in stone emphasizes that the Law is eternal, everlasting, without a beginning or end. Timeless

 

[atpollard]

Nicodemus' theology was that any Jew already had salvation based on their ethnicity.

I wouldn't attempt to explain the rest of the post, but just this one line appears to me to be a claim something along the line of "Jews are born into a covenant relationship with God" ... only worded more carelessly with loaded terms like "salvation" and "ethnicity".

Which sounds sort of about right (if incomplete) from my limited knowledge of the OT Law.
But I am SO far from an expert on that area.

 

[atpollard]

Where does Yeshua anywhere call for the execution of Jews?

Or Paul?

Or the Jewish disciples?

It was the Gentiles who crucified Yeshua not the Jews.

Here's my favorite quote from Paul:

“Yea, it hath been their good pleasure; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, they owe it to them also to minister unto them in carnal things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:27‬ ‭ASV‬‬
http://bible.com/12/rom.15.27.asv

While true, the Priests, Scribes and Pharasies of the Gospels were not without blood on their hands (metaphorically speaking).

Flankerl made a reasonable claim earlier, let's be honest.

 

[Intojoy]

While true, the Priests, Scribes and Pharasies of the Gospels were not without blood on their hands (metaphorically speaking).

Flankerl made a reasonable claim earlier, let's be honest.

Absolutely. The Catholic Church was far more cruel to the Jews than Islam.

My point was that what was done in the name of "Christianity" was not part of the true followers of Yeshua nor is there anything written that would justify the wickedness of satan's counterfeit church.

Here's what really is happening.

The evil one is a created being. His war against God and man is always put into action after God reveals truth.

The seed of the woman Gen 3, brought on the war against women Gen 6.

The revelation of a son from Sarah brought on Ishmael.

The Egyptian attempt to kill off the Jewish people.

Today:

Yeshua proclaimed that the nation of Israel will not see him again until they confess him as their Messiah.

Satan has attempted a two front strategy against Israel. First there has been an on going attempt of total genocide of the Jewish people. Because if there are no Jewish people for Yeshua to come back for as their Messiah King then Satan can stay in power.

Secondly, there has been an all out persecution of the Jewish people in the name of Christ and Christianity. Because if the nation of Israel turns to Yeshua in faith then and only then does Yeshua return.

 

[atpollard]

Today:

Yeshua proclaimed that the nation of Israel will not see him again until they confess him as their Messiah.

Satan has attempted a two front strategy against Israel. First there has been an on going attempt of total genocide of the Jewish people. Because if there are no Jewish people for Yeshua to come back for as their Messiah King then Satan can stay in power.

Secondly, there has been an all out persecution of the Jewish people in the name of Christ and Christianity. Because if the nation of Israel turns to Yeshua in faith then and only then does Yeshua return.

I am going to leave the OT Bible commentary to Matthew Henry and the history lessons to those with more interest and experience, but your Eschatology appears to have the cart before the horse. Nothing is holding God back except God.

When Messiah comes, Israel will welcome him. It is not God waiting on Israel to get their act together, but rather Israel waiting for God to decide the time has come.

There have always been those who want the Jews dead, and God seems to have had no more trouble dealing with them than he had dealing with Haman. I see no recent 'total genocides', but rather a fairly strong nation of Israel. However, setting Israel aside, I am confident that God could preserve a single Jewish man and woman and rebuild his people if that was His desire. I find it inconceivable that anything could even come close to thwarting the plan of God. The Messiah will come at the hour "known only by the Father". No sooner, and no later. God is in the driver's seat.

I am unaware of any significant, modern Christian persecution of Jews. Could you site a news source?
Again, Jesus return when the Father says it is time. That is when the 'veil' will be lifted from the Jews and they will welcome their Messiah in faith.

The only 'pre-requisite' that I am aware of is the Great Commission and the desire of God that as many as possible be rescued before the day of judgement. The end times are not being driven by human efforts, but by a divine plan.

YMMV

 

[Tumah]

indeed according to first century Pharisaic Judaism the new birth happens at the bar mitzvah, marriage, becoming a rabbi and becoming a teacher of a rabbinical school.

Say...what...now?

 

[Tumah]

My point was that what was done in the name of "Christianity" was not part of the true followers of Yeshua nor is there anything written that would justify the wickedness of satan's counterfeit church.

Satan's counterfeit church being virtually every church until around the 20th century?
Kind of makes "real" Christianity fairly young.

 

[Intojoy]

Satan's counterfeit church being virtually every church until around the 20th century?
Kind of makes "real" Christianity fairly young.

No. The fact is that Christianity was considered a sect within Judaism in the first century.

When did that end?

It ended when Bar Cochba (forgive my spelling please) claimed to be the Messiah and the Jewish followers of Yeshua pulled out of the rebellion against Rome causing the rebellion to fail. That was when the final split from Judaism took place.

Now it was Augustine who instituted the allegorical method of interpretation for the purpose of de-jewishing the faith. Jewish elders were forbidden to attend the counsel of Nicea.

If one holds to a strict literal hermeneutic he ends up with the nation of Israel as the focal point of his theology. It is only when the literal interpretation is abandoned that replacement theology is presented.

The counterfeit church is Romanism, the Catholic Church.

The problem with evangelical denominations is that they lack a complete biblical Israelology. Which is very problematic in the study of the Law and the Prophets and the Writings.
And in terms of the Gospels and the Hebrew Christian epistles it is imperative to have an understanding of these writings with the light of a first century Jewish Believer's perspective.

The writings of Paul are written to the Gentiles thus they can be understood from a gentile vantage point. And this is important my Jewish beloved brother, the writings of Paul are pro Israel. Both the counterfeit church and the majority of evangelical churches adhere to replacement theology and that is how they excuse Christian anti-Semitism.

I am a gentile who believes the Messianic claim made by Yeshua based on my observation of the Jewish scriptures, I am a student of Ariel Ministries - Ariel.org