• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How Does a Jew Attain Salvation?

A

atpollard

Active Member
Isaiah Torres said:
Im not saying my Church is the only Church is right but if it is it has to be Just like the bible says and thats what mines is but before you throw is out just at least consoder or come and check it out for yourself nobody throws away something that has a chance of something of value being inside of it just because they think its empty..no they open it up and check inside first before they make the final judgment wether to throw it away or not
Click to expand...
My church is like the Church in the Bible, too.

Corinth ... yeah, we have those problems.
Galatia ... yeah, we have those problems.
Ephesus ... yeah, we have those problems.
Those seven churches in Revelation ... we have most of those problems too.
Bickering between Paul and Barnabas and Peter ... we have that too.

For some crazy reason, Jesus still loves us and puts up with us.
[You can visit New Beginnings Life Center in Spring Hill, Florida ... I suggest a Tuesday night, the men's group meets and we like to talk and eat donuts. (We are currently talking about Job and well meaning friends.)] :)
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
atpollard said:
Peter had a reputation for having cut off the ear of the servant of the high priest.

So your question was why was Peter in charge ... he was stronger than several men, carried a sword and had a reputation for using it.

I made a joke that YOU could tell such a man that you wanted to challenge him for the right to be in charge. :)
On a serious note, Peter had the physical stature and aggression to be a decisive leader, once God had a chance to work on his heart.
Click to expand...
Peter was not chosen because of his “physical stature and aggression to be a decisive leader”. Look closely at the man’s name, “Peter”. In the first chapter of John’s Gospel, Jesus says, “Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter).”
This man’s name was changed for a reason. It had nothing to do with being “stronger than several men”.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The word "kephas" in Hebrew and Aramaic means "rock", but translating it into Koine Greek posed a challenge because that same word would be feminine. Therefore, the author appears to have tried to deal with this by positing both the feminine and masculine together to show the symbolism involved (petra/Petros).
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
metis said:
The word "kephas" in Hebrew and Aramaic means "rock", but translating it into Koine Greek posed a challenge because that same word would be feminine. Therefore, the author appears to have tried to deal with this by positing both the feminine and masculine together to show the symbolism involved (petra/Petros).
Click to expand...
Yes, but I did want one of the other guys to answer it. Anyway, lets go from there. Why "rock"?
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
metis said:
Sorry about that.

Why "rock"? Probably as a symbol of strength, I would tend to assume.
Click to expand...
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:13-20)

The foundation of the Church is built upon not what was revealed to Peter but how it was revealed to Peter.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
I even find it just as hard to understand how it became a Christian concept.
There must be a logical link, to other early Christian beliefs, that defined the need for it.
Click to expand...
Since Christianity implies that Jews and Gentiles are united into one house, it could be that salvation and original sin are actually about equivocating gentiles with law-keeping Jews rather than about puritanical ideas. Original sin seems like a transformation of the concept that joining Christ is as good as ritual purification. So consider that as a possible source, perhaps mutated and maimed through political intrigue.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
According to the verses I had just quoted, the New Covenant is a revelation from God. The New Covenant is not revealed by man. I’m not getting this from any scholar. I’m getting this only from the verses themselves.
 
A

atpollard

Active Member
roger1440 said:
metis, I know, you know. I wanted the other guys to put on there thinking hat and hold on to it as hard as they can, LOL
Click to expand...
What 'other guys'?
Isaiah Torres seems to have left.
I just came to quip about Peter.

To the original topic, Jews are saved like any body else ... through Jesus Christ.
(What's to discuss that doesn't already have a plethora of electrons spilled).

Don't wait for me.
I pass on this 'Peter' conversation.
 
A

atpollard

Active Member
roger1440 said:
Then they ain't Jews no more
Click to expand...
Did Paul claim to no longer be a Jew?
That was not the impression that I got.

Romans 11:1 "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin."
 
A

atpollard

Active Member
roger1440 said:
The entire New Covenant is summarized in Peter’s revelation.
Click to expand...
OK, I admit that was a lot more interesting than why God sent Peter to the house of a Roman rather than one of the other Apostles (which was where I came into this conversation), but it is still pretty far from the topic of "How are Jews saved?"
 
A

atpollard

Active Member
roger1440 said:
Not directly
Click to expand...
The 'saved' Jews that I know (which I grant is a very small sample size) do not appear to view their salvation as the loss of what they had but the addition of something more.
They would self describe as being completed.

It really seems very different than my conversion from atheism to Christianity.
 
A

atpollard

Active Member
roger1440 said:
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:13-20)
Click to expand...
The foundation of the Church is built upon not what was revealed to Peter but how it was revealed to Peter.
Click to expand...

Clearly that is a possible interpretation, but how can we be sure that it is the correct interpretation.

Why isn't "this rock" Peter (which you made such a big deal to point out means 'rock')? Supporting the Catholic Church view of the supremacy of Peter among the Apostles.
Why isn't "this rock" the statement “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”? It is hard to claim that the Christian Church is NOT built upon the fact that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of the living God.
Why must "this rock" be the METHOD of the revelation?

Why can't "this rock" be all three? Clearly God used Peter to build his Church. Clearly 'who Jesus is' is a foundation, the cornerstone upon which the church is built. Clearly direct personal revelation is a significant foundation separating the Old Covenant from the New Covenant.

Why is yours the RIGHT interpretation?
You have placed extraordinary importance on it, some support seems warranted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top