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How Gorbachev was misled over assurances against NATO expansion

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
None of this is even remotely true. NATO is defensive. Read the charter.

If NATO's purpose was to wage war against Russia, why have they not done so now that Russia is tangled up in Ukraine? A NATO attack on Russia through the Baltics and Poland could cut the Russian supply lines to Ukraine overnight, yet NATO has not undertaken such an attack.

The NATO does attack.
It attacks those countries like Syria and Libya whose leaders were not considered "suitable" by the American Deep State.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It is a conjecture.
Of course.
It's a response to your conjecture about Russian joining NATO.
(Which is like having a flock of foxes join the Henhouse Treaty
Organization. We know that the foxes goal isn't defending hens.)
No NATO member has ever attacked another NATO member.
You are assuming Russia would.
I assume that Russia might.
You assume that Russia would only defend NATO members.
That is a dubious assumption.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
True. NATO was wrong, and did wrong after too

NATO messed up big time, disrespecting Russian leaders so many times. Putin has said it many times, before taking action

NATO is fully responsible for this. Dissing people, disrespecting them, belittling them, as they did to Putin (plenty examples on the net), but Putin did not do that, though he had reason

America should stop slandering Russia.

I heard too many stories now to believe Russia is the bad guy here
That murdering of women and children is so misunderstood.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Of course.
It's a response to your conjecture about Russian joining NATO.
(Which is like having a flock of foxes join the Henhouse Treaty
Organization. We know that the foxes goal isn't defending hens.)

I assume that Russia might.
You assume that Russia would only defend NATO members.
That is a dubious assumption.

Let us make a hypothesis (even if I know for sure it is not ).

Let's say that Russia has always wanted to join the NATO since the nineties...but the American Deep State does not want her.
Because their ultimate goal is to wage war against her, to take possession of her territory and countless resources.

Don't you think that the USA would do anything to antagonize her, to provoke her?
 
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Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Let us make a hypothesis (even if I know for sue ir is not a hypothesis).

Let's say that Russia has always wanted to join the NATO since the nineties...but the American Deep State does not want her.
Because their ultinate goal is to wage war against her to take possession of her territory and countless resources.

Don't you think that they would do anything to antagonize het, to provoke her?

Why didn't NATO attack when the Soviet Union dissolved then?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Hillary Clinton: we came, we saw, he(Qaddafi) died.
How many years after Qaddafi was involved with the Lockerbie terrorist attack? Way too late, IMO.

You're either cooperate with global peace and security, or you are against it. People like Putin and Assad are given a lot of tolerance, and when they take advantage of this good will eventually innocent people die.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Because the American law says you need a pretext to attack a country.

Yoi know...like the fake bottle of Colin Powell...
Assign the blame where it belongs: on Dick Cheney, and Bush by association. Only Powell has apologized for being part of a deception that he was used after being given false information.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Let us make a hypothesis (even if I know for sure it is not ).

Let's say that Russia has always wanted to join the NATO since the nineties...but the American Deep State does not want her.
Because their ultimate goal is to wage war against her, to take possession of her territory and countless resources.

Don't you think that the USA would do anything to antagonize het, to provoke her?
You've constructed an unverifiable scenario.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Let us make a hypothesis (even if I know for sure it is not ).

Let's say that Russia has always wanted to join the NATO since the nineties...but the American Deep State does not want her.
Exactly, the American authoritarians can just ally with Russia and destabilize NATO.

Because their ultimate goal is to wage war against her, to take possession of her territory and countless resources.
Exactly, just as Napoleon and Hitler were able to do.

Don't you think that the USA would do anything to antagonize het, to provoke her?
You mean provoke a nuclear power whose government is unstable? Now it makes sense.
 
I use Aristotelian logic.
If Russia is a NATO member...how can it be dangerous to the NATO?

Use Aristotelian logic to solve these equations:

If Russia never tried to join NATO, how is it NATOs fault that Russia didn't join NATO?

Who has more to fear:

Tiny Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia from Russia, a country who has already colonised and oppressed them and uses violence to stop any colonial possession from becoming free and practicing self-determination or Russia, the world's number one nuclear power, from NATO?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Use Aristotelian logic to solve these equations:

If Russia never tried to join NATO, how is it NATOs fault that Russia didn't join NATO?

Who has more to fear:

Tiny Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia from Russia, a country who has already colonised and oppressed them and uses violence to stop any colonial possession from becoming free and practicing self-determination or Russia, the world's number one nuclear power, from NATO?

Russia has never invaded a NATO country.
Ukraine is not NATO.
And Russia has no intention to invade and occupy a NATO country
 
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