How is it true "Jesus is God"?

[savagewind]

Here is a question for you all. If you believe scripture which describes Christ's bride answer this please. Was she created?

 

[sojourner]

OK. A like for a big word. LOL How cute is that?

Can the son or the Holy Spirit perform independant of God The Father? In other words can they do anything of which the Father does not approve? Or can the Father do anything not being approved by the other two?

"Doing anything of which the Father does not approve" isn't the same thing as "doing only what the Father commands." The first shows a unity of will. The second shows an enforcement of will. You posted the latter, which is incorrect. There is a unity of will, but not an enforcement of will.

 

[sojourner]

You said there are three distinct Gods.

Show we where I said that, because I've never said that.

 

[sojourner]

I hear him say it too. See the capital 'P'?

Nope. Capital "P" doesn't designate each as a separate God. It designates each person as fully the one God.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Here is a question for you all. If you believe scripture which describes Christ's bride answer this please. Was she created?

No, she evolved through the consciousness that developed within the divine awareness of reality that began to spring up within the Source of all things. She was there all the time, but she wsa not realised, any more than the groom was. But time would set them free.

 

[sojourner]

That scripture is about Jesus; not only that, I gave you other scriptures that say Jesus is the Spirit.

No. It isn't.

 

[Robert.Evans]

There is only one Spirit.

So how do you answer an ''evil'' spirit?

 

[savagewind]

Can the son or the Holy Spirit perform independant of God The Father? In other words can they do anything of which the Father does not approve? Or can the Father do anything not being approved by the other two?

"Doing anything of which the Father does not approve" isn't the same thing as "doing only what the Father commands." The first shows a unity of will. The second shows an enforcement of will. You posted the latter, which is incorrect. There is a unity of will, but not an enforcement of will.

I have to sort this out.
Doing anything of which The Father does not approve shows unity. I believe in the unity of God.
Doing only what The Father commands shows enforcement. Obviously God is not for enforcement so I do not believe that.
Are you saying I posted God enforces The Holy Spirit and the son? I am sorry, Where did I do that?.

OK I see it! The son and holy spirit can't do anything but what the father commands. How about if I change is to does not? Of course as a man Jesus did much more than what the Father commanded. So I should say "within" God's will the son does nothing.

 

[savagewind]

No, she evolved through the consciousness that developed within the divine awareness of reality that began to spring up within the Source of all things. She was there all the time, but she wsa not realised, any more than the groom was. But time would set them free.

Aha! Good answer. She was there all the time. Good! Perhaps like Jesus was "there all the time"? You know I love you!

 

[savagewind]

Now let's us wait patiently for THEM to answer it. I wonder if they will?

 

[savagewind]

I think they won't answer knowing it is a trap.

 

[sojourner]

I have to sort this out.
Doing anything of which The Father does not approve shows unity. I believe in the unity of God.
Doing only what The Father commands shows enforcement. Obviously God is not for enforcement so I do not believe that.
Are you saying I posted God enforces The Holy Spirit and the son? I am sorry, Where did I do that?.

OK I see it! The son and holy spirit can't do anything but what the father commands. How about if I change is to does not? Of course as a man Jesus did much more than what the Father commanded. So I should say "within" God's will the son does nothing.

Jesus does the will of the Father. I think that's as far as I'd take it. The Father commands some things be done -- and I'm sure Jesus carries that out -- but I'm not sure that the Father always commands, or that Jesus can do nothing without being commanded. I don't think it's a "command" kind of relationship.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The two which have God's essence can't do anything but what The Father commands.

Yes

So that makes The Father God Alone.

Not necessarily.

God's Son and The Holy Spirit are aspects of God The Father.

Yes!

But all creation is also an attribute of God The Father

Brilliant!

so Jesus and The Holy Spirit are what dwells between The Father and everything else.

It could be seen that way, yes.

But because THEY can't do anything but what the Father will do they are not GOD. Of course they are divine because they do not have their dwelling place in the physical universe but they are not God because they are not separate from us.

Okay. They are Divinity but not Supreme-Divinity. Fine.

God can do without us. The Son and The Holy Spirit are FOR us. I think they would not exist without us.

I think they would but in abstract form. It was the separation from the Source which created the Image, (second-source) and thus allowed us to express ourselves within conscious terms. It is then within that that we are not only free as God willed, but also the feminine bride and son (the story of Mosheh hidden in the rushes). But it is only one aspect of God, one aspect of the bride. There are many. Just as there are many days, and each day is like a new beginning, a new start, and thus a new reflection of God, and of course, the son.
But the son can also be God as John and Hebrews and others tell us . He was not on earth, but he is above. I and the Father are one. One what you might ask. Well if he is of the same substance, then he is God. It is our concept of God that is flawed I think, too simple. Clearly as a son that is relative to us, he is the son of God and not God. But that is not where it all ends. But then, you know me! haha

I liked that post!

 

[savagewind]

Jesus does the will of the Father. I think that's as far as I'd take it. The Father commands some things be done -- and I'm sure Jesus carries that out -- but I'm not sure that the Father always commands, or that Jesus can do nothing without being commanded. I don't think it's a "command" kind of relationship.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

What is a god who can do NOTHING?

 

[Robert.Evans]

I know what the trinity doctrine says.

The trinity doctrine is not in the Bible, and it is a false doctrine.

But it is inspired of God and given the Church. Are we to say that the Church that is accepted by the lord is wrong?

 

[sojourner]

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

What is a god who can do NOTHING?

What good is a relationship that stands in anarchy?

 

[savagewind]

What good is a relationship that stands in anarchy?

I think that is a good question. Unfortunately it is bouncing off my brain. Can you rephrase it please?

 

[Robert.Evans]

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

What is a god who can do NOTHING?

But was that not when he was a man? Would it not be different in heaven? I think the lord mirrored his Father. That might not make him the Father, but an image of him, but he does ''whatever he sees his Father doing'' and ''I and the Father are one''. Does that make him God? If he is mirroring him, it has to. Which came first, might be a better question. You might say that it has to be the Father, for a father has a son. But the son says ''he who wishes to be greatest must make himself least''. So now we see who the son is!

 

[sojourner]

I think that is a good question. Unfortunately it is bouncing off my brain. Can you rephrase it please?

You seem to be inferring that Jesus can do nothing without the Father. And the way I read your post, it seems like you think that's a bad thing or a suspect thing. Hence my question: "What good is a relationship that stands in anarchy?" IOW, what good is the trinitarian relationship between the three Persons, if their separate actions are out-of-whack with each other? Think of it this way: with a common will, each person will act with the interest of the other parties. That's a good thing. It's the basis for the covenant relationship that God establishes with Israel, and the basis for the covenant relationship that Jesus establishes with the Church. It would be counterproductive (and a breach of relationship) for Jesus to do that which the Father would not do. In this way, the three Persons are united in will and purpose.

 

[savagewind]

You seem to be inferring that Jesus can do nothing without the Father. And the way I read your post, it seems like you think that's a bad thing or a suspect thing. Hence my question: "What good is a relationship that stands in anarchy?" IOW, what good is the trinitarian relationship between the three Persons, if their separate actions are out-of-whack with each other? Think of it this way: with a common will, each person will act with the interest of the other parties. That's a good thing. It's the basis for the covenant relationship that God establishes with Israel, and the basis for the covenant relationship that Jesus establishes with the Church. It would be counterproductive (and a breach of relationship) for Jesus to do that which the Father would not do. In this way, the three Persons are united in will and purpose.

I agree. And that makes them one person.