How is it true "Jesus is God"?

[Shiranui117]

I'm asking those people who believe Jesus is God. I think I will never believe YHVH and Yehsua are the same person.

It depends. By YHVH, do you mean the Father? Then no, we would not agree that the Father and the Son are the same person. But if you mean we are saying that the Father and the Son are both equally God, as distinct Persons of the Trinity that exist simultaneously alongside each other? Yes, you have that right.

Just one question then please. Some say Jesus is God. OK. Is God Jesus?

Yes. Jesus is God. And God is Father, Son (AKA Jesus) and Holy Spirit. And Jesus is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Father is NOT the Son or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son or the Father.

 

[outhouse]

I'm asking those people who believe Jesus is God. I think I will never believe YHVH and Yehsua are the same person. There are people who have said to believe YHVH and Yehsua are the same person means truth and according to my understanding truth means saved. I will never be saved (according to that premise). I don't know if I care about that.

You missed a step imo. You say the Canaanites were the ones who developed the whole notion. But they might be right. How do you know they are wrong?

How do you know Jeuss isnt god.

Like I said your question cannot be answered. You cannot prove something isnt a deity, like Jesus, and believers cannot prove the link either.

And what your asking them to link too, cannot be proven.



How do I know they were wrong?, because they believed in multiple deity figures as a family, then Israelites compiled all the deities to mirror their cultural needs as they redifined the concept into monotheism and one specific deity with all the others traits.

In tis case people factually took more then one deity and attributed all the other deities power to Yahweh. You factually have a merger of El and Yahweh and even some of Baals attributes given to Yahweh.

Man has created thousands of diffrent deities, and your question is now, how can you prove they all are not right? if you ask how I know.

 

[savagewind]

Yes. Jesus is God. And God is Father, Son (AKA Jesus) and Holy Spirit. And Jesus is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Father is NOT the Son or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son or the Father

Jesus the flesh or Jesus the spirit of the man? Or both? Someone said it is Jesus' spiritual essence that is The God. That is reasonable. I might believe that. The baby Jesus is not The God. God is not dependent on anyone or anything. Babies are.

 

[Shermana]

So what does "person" mean since it apparently doesn't mean "distinct individual" like it normally means?

 

[Freelance_Policeman]

How do you know Jeuss isnt god.

Like I said your question cannot be answered. You cannot prove something isnt a deity, like Jesus, and believers cannot prove the link either.

And what your asking them to link too, cannot be proven.



How do I know they were wrong?, because they believed in multiple deity figures as a family, then Israelites compiled all the deities to mirror their cultural needs as they redifined the concept into monotheism and one specific deity with all the others traits.

In tis case people factually took more then one deity and attributed all the other deities power to Yahweh. You factually have a merger of El and Yahweh and even some of Baals attributes given to Yahweh.

Man has created thousands of diffrent deities, and your question is now, how can you prove they all are not right? if you ask how I know.

In the Tanach, Yahweh acknowledged that Abraham knew him as El. This is why the singleness of Yahweh was emphasized so much in the Torah; in Canaanite mythology, Yahweh was El's son. Thus, "Hear, O Israel, Yahweh our god, Yahweh is one."

The prophets also spoke of Yahweh as the 'Most High God.' I take this to mean there are no equals to him, though there are lesser 'deities' that we are forbidden to worship.

 

[Shermana]

In the Tanach, Yahweh acknowledged that Abraham knew him as El. This is why the singleness of Yahweh was emphasized so much in the Torah; in Canaanite mythology, Yahweh was El's son. Thus, "Hear, O Israel, Yahweh our god, Yahweh is one."

The prophets also spoke of Yahweh as the 'Most High God.' I take this to mean there are no equals to him, though there are lesser 'deities' that we are forbidden to worship.

We don't even know if the Canaanite "YWH" was the same YHWH to the Hebrews. Especially in consideration of what the actual meaning of YHWH is. Or if the Canaanites made it a practice of declaring other nation's gods to be "beneath" "The god" (El, which means "god" and is not really a name but a title of supremacy).

But yes, there are in fact other "deities" which Israel is forbidden from serving and worshiping, it's this little fact that seems to have been lost on mainstream Christianity and Judaism which causes a great deal of problems. I think this overreaction to what is (incorrectly) considered "Polytheism" (Meanwhile the Trinity is for some reason not considered Polytheism, incorrectly) goes back to the days that the Masoretes altered the reading of Deuteronomy 32:8. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that Israelite religion confirms the existence of other lesser "deities" who are nonetheless below THE deity, the "Most high god".

What's the point in having a "Most high" ("Ascending") god if there's no other god to compare Him to?

 

[savagewind]

How do you know Jesus isnt god

Jesus is a god. A god is something that can redirect power either way. I know that Jesus or Yeshua has done this for me. He is my god. How do I know he is not THE GOD? He (I believe the man actually lived) grew inside a human woman, born of a woman, was raised by humans, nurtured by them and was dependent on them. Can you imagine The God being dependent? If a god is dependent on another the other is it's god. Mary is NOT The God. OK?

 

[outhouse]

Jesus is a god. A god is something that can redirect power either way. I know that Jesus or Yeshua has done this for me. He is my god. How do I know he is not THE GOD? He (I believe the man actually lived) grew inside a human woman, born of a woman, was raised by humans, nurtured by them and was dependent on them. Can you imagine The God being dependent? If a god is dependent on another the other is it's god. Mary is NOT The God. OK?

With faith, magic and imagination anything is possible. Mythology can attribute anything it wants.

If you follow the history of the NT you will see different authors struggling with how to define Jesus. Each gave divinity at different times in jesus life. jesus was not defined as one with god until what amounts to a court hearing that stated how they would define jesus divinity from here on out in 325 CE

Early beliefs ranged from Jesus being only man all the way to being only a deity like the holy ghost concept.

OK? no. But Im not trying to change your belief. Im only following the real history of the man that did live 2000ish years ago.

My point is you could write a book and make any claims you want, and this would mirror the exact same ways the NT was created. These were all writen by men who never knew or met Jesus, and were writing from a different geographic location then where he realy lived.

 

[outhouse]

We don't even know if the Canaanite "YWH" was the same YHWH to the Hebrews.

Yes we do.

There is no debate here at all.


Cannanited factually evolved into Israelites per Dever and Finklestein

 

[outhouse]

In the Tanach, Yahweh acknowledged that Abraham knew him as El. This is why the singleness of Yahweh was emphasized so much in the Torah; in Canaanite mythology, Yahweh was El's son. Thus, "Hear, O Israel, Yahweh our god, Yahweh is one."

The prophets also spoke of Yahweh as the 'Most High God.' I take this to mean there are no equals to him, though there are lesser 'deities' that we are forbidden to worship.

All previous deities were compiled as the religion turned to monotheism by a Yahwist King Josiah after 622 BC.

El was the father and the god most high. These attributes were al gven to Yahweh during the monotheistic redactions.

El was Yahwehs father in early Israelite cultures as well. Again monotheistic redaction is a fact.

 

[Shermana]

Yes we do.

There is no debate here at all.


Cannanited factually evolved into Israelites per Dever and Finklestein

Oh we do?

First off, do you even know what Dever says on the subject? You're under the impression that ALL the Canaanites turned into Israelites and there weren't warring factions even in this particular logic.

 

[outhouse]

Oh we do?

First off, do you even know what Dever says on the subject? You're under the impression that ALL the Canaanites turned into Israelites and there weren't warring factions even in this particular logic.

Did I say all Canaanites?

FACT IS, that early proto Israelites were identical to the Canaanite culture after 1200 BC.

Were there other semetic people that joinded the Canaanites after 1200 BC? Yes. But as a nation Israelites factually evolved from displaced Canaanites, and FACTUALLY Israelite religion evolved DIRECTLY from the Canaanite culture.


Explain why Israelites used the family pantheon of Cananite deities of their choosing.

 

[Shiranui117]

Jesus is a god. A god is something that can redirect power either way. I know that Jesus or Yeshua has done this for me. He is my god. How do I know he is not THE GOD? He (I believe the man actually lived) grew inside a human woman, born of a woman, was raised by humans, nurtured by them and was dependent on them. Can you imagine The God being dependent? If a god is dependent on another the other is it's god. Mary is NOT The God. OK?

God the Son becoming dependent was a great condescension to us, a great show of God's love for us--that He was even willing to take on our weaknesses for us. Mary of course is not a goddess; she is merely human, nothing more.

Also, your definition of a god means that even plants can be considered gods...

 

[savagewind]

God the Son becoming dependent was a great condescension to us, a great show of God's love for us--that He was even willing to take on our weaknesses for us. Mary of course is not a goddess; she is merely human, nothing more.

Also, your definition of a god means that even plants can be considered gods...

Not plants no, but I know what you mean. Knowledge, wisdom and choice about plants, yes, these are gods.

 

[Shermana]

Did I say all Canaanites?

FACT IS, that early proto Israelites were identical to the Canaanite culture after 1200 BC.

Were there other semetic people that joinded the Canaanites after 1200 BC? Yes. But as a nation Israelites factually evolved from displaced Canaanites, and FACTUALLY Israelite religion evolved DIRECTLY from the Canaanite culture.


Explain why Israelites used the family pantheon of Cananite deities of their choosing.

The implication that you said that YWH has to be the exact same deity as YHWH, and that the Canaanites didn't incorporate the Israelite YHWH into their pantheon as a "lesser god" would have to be that the Canaanites all became Israelites.

Asking me to explain why the Israelites used this family pantheon is blatantly circular reasoning that ignores the premise of what I even asked!

 

[outhouse]

The implication that you said that YWH has to be the exact same deity as YHWH, and that the Canaanites didn't incorporate the Israelite YHWH into their pantheon as a "lesser god" would have to be that the Canaanites all became Israelites.

Asking me to explain why the Israelites used this family pantheon is blatantly circular reasoning that ignores the premise of what I even asked!

Your not making any sense at all. Stop the nonsense.

Yahweh was a Canaanite deity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)

Yahweh, prior to becoming Yahweh the national god of Israel and taking on monotheistic attributes in the 6th century BCE, was a part of the Canaanite pantheon in the period before the Babylonian captivity. Archeological evidence reveals that during this time period the Israelites were a group of Canaanite people.

Yahweh was seen as a war god, and equated with El. Asherah, who was often seen as El's consort, has been described as a consort of Yahweh in numerous inscriptions.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_(Canaanite_deity)#cite_note-1

 

[outhouse]

So to get back on topic.

If Jesus was born like a man, lived like a man, acted like a man, and died like a man.

How can you claim he is a god?

The people who wrote about him were from another culture who never met or heard from him, all writing decades later.

 

[savagewind]

He is powerful like god power. The real question is how can anyone claim he is The God. God is a spirit. A man is not a spirit.

 

[outhouse]

He is powerful like god power. .

We dont know that. You are relying on testimony by people that were not eyewitnesses to the events, belonged to another culture, who did even live close to the geographic area in question.

Hearsay can be used as evidence, but miraculous claims need miraculous evidence. we dont have it.

The real question is how can anyone claim he is The God.

faith alone, like your beliefs.

God is a spirit.

At this point in time, spirits dont exist scientifically. [your using faith alone]

A man is not a spirit

Correct.

 

[Me Myself]

Q: "Why do you that are a man say you are god?"

A: "Dont the scriptures say "you are gods" ?"