How is 'not accepting the act' a true acceptance of homosexuality?

[loverofhumanity]

I'm curious, then, of your opinion of foster parents.

A Bahá’í family, foster or otherwise within the Baha’i Community can only be within a marriage between a man and a woman.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No same sex couple could ever have replaced my mother.

Depriving a child of a mother or a father is loving?

It is their natural birthright that we are tampering with. Nature has provided and intended a balanced male and female upbringing for children.

You can't miss something you never had. If you never had a mother or father in the first place, how are you missing something? You don't make sense. Nature isn't conscious and doesn't care what the outcome is. All studies of the children of gay parents say they do great, so you're just relying on your own prejudices and unfounded fear.

 

[loverofhumanity]

As with the usual pattern, you sidestepped the question. Lots of mothers and fathers neglect their children, beat their children, etc. But as far as I can tell, you'd far rather have that than gay parents. The extent of the homophobia in the Bahai faith is at times just overwhelming. It is obvious to most of the world, child psychologists, teachers, etc. that gay parents make wonderful parents.

I didn’t side step the question at all. I just didn’t perhaps answer it the way you wanted it answered. I said I would much prefer my ‘loving’ mother and father than to be deprived of either my ‘loving’ mother or ‘loving’ father.

If parents are not loving and beat their children the children should be placed under the care of others in foster care. In the case of Baha’is it is only permissible within the marriage of a man and a woman.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Yes they do indeed. All those that still have teachings founded in God's Word, will have the same Law. All those that man has had input into, might not reflect this as clearly.

Well, according to you the older religions are inaccurate or something so... You're religion's been around for 155 years. Also literally reliant on the input of men who you believe to be some emissary of god.

A Bahá’í family, foster or otherwise within the Baha’i Community can only be within a marriage between a man and a woman.

And others? It's not all about bahais, you know.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You can't miss something you never had. If you never had a mother or father in the first place, how are you missing something? You don't make sense. Nature isn't conscious and doesn't care what the outcome is. All studies of the children of gay parents say they do great, so you're just relying on your own prejudices and unfounded fear.

I knew my mother and I wouldn’t swap her for anyone.

With same sex marriage adoption must be involved as they cannot give birth to their own children.

Emotional Problems among Children with Same-Sex Parents: Difference by Definition by Donald Sullins :: SSRN

Attempted suicide is more common among adolescents who live with adoptive parents than among adolescents who live with biological parents.

Toward Preventing Adoption-Related Suicide | HuffPost

It is not cut and dried as you are making out. There are many, many sources that say the opposite. Google them and you can see that it’s not ‘all studies”. They are all adopted children so adoption must be looked at.

Adoption is unhealthy but homosexuals who cannot have their own children are most likely to adopt.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Well, according to you the older religions are inaccurate or something so... You're religion's been around for 155 years. Also literally reliant on the input of men who you believe to be some emissary of god.


And others? It's not all about bahais, you know.

Our laws apply only to Baha’is. Others we do not interfere with or oppose. We only apply this to our own communities.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

With same sex marriage adoption must be involved as they cannot give birth to their own children.

So what I'm reading here is that homosexuals care more for children left by their parents than bahais do...

Also lesbian couples can get sperm donors and have children of their own, so there's that.

Our laws apply only to Baha’is. Others we do not interfere with or oppose. We only apply this to our own communities.

Only I wasn't asking about your laws, I was asking about your opinion regarding foster parents. But I think we're getting a clear picture of it...​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You can't miss something you never had. If you never had a mother or father in the first place, how are you missing something?

I have a Step Son and Daughter that both will never know who His Father is. An event in the 1970's born out of the new age of sexual freedom.

If you to ask him or her, they will tell you it eats at their very core not knowing who their Father was. As much as we are Father and Son (Step Daughter has extreme issues), I can not be their biological Father, to which He has so many questions they would like to know the answer to.

This is just one Family of millions, thus there are great psychological battles unfolding within millions of peoples for this very same reason. To which do not need to happen, if people are again educated to think beyond self fulfilling sex to the myriad of possible consequences.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

As with the usual pattern, you sidestepped the question. Lots of mothers and fathers neglect their children, beat their children, etc. But as far as I can tell, you'd far rather have that than gay parents. The extent of the homophobia in the Bahai faith is at times just overwhelming. It is obvious to most of the world, child psychologists, teachers, etc. that gay parents make wonderful parents.

There is good and bad in all segments of society. There are both good and bad homosexuals and heterosexuals.

Naturally the generalization you make supports your own bias.

‘It’s obvious to most of the world’. Ha! So you have proof 6 billion people support with your bias? Just because it’s media driven doesn’t mean the silent world majority support it.

A gross error in factual presentation. Unlike you to make such wild generalizations. You have no proof whatsoever that ‘most of the world’ agree with you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, according to you the older religions are inaccurate or something so... You're religion's been around for 155 years. Also literally reliant on the input of men who you believe to be some emissary of god.

Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah are all we can know of God. They all teach the same Moral Virtues on this topic.

If you do not find this teaching in their writings, then that is a teaching that has been replaced by Man. Still, I am sure you will find passages applicable to the joining only of Male and Female and outside that joining, the prohibition of immoral acts.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Nothing about love? So you would rather have heterosexual parents that beat the crap out of each other and you, than a gay couple that provided for your every need in a loving caring way? That's sad.

You add an entire new dimension to the topic and then impute a ludicrous position that is not a Baha'i view.

Why did you choose to do this?

Regards Tony

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah are all we can know of God. They all teach the same Moral Virtues on this topic.

One of those "people" is a god in Hinduism - we've all been over this before. They are all also men, you only believe they speak for your god.

But even still, that's a lot of old, which you've stated makes for inaccuracy. You're just getting more and more inaccurate, according to your logic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I knew my mother and I wouldn’t swap her for anyone.

With same sex marriage adoption must be involved as they cannot give birth to their own children.

Emotional Problems among Children with Same-Sex Parents: Difference by Definition by Donald Sullins :: SSRN

Attempted suicide is more common among adolescents who live with adoptive parents than among adolescents who live with biological parents.

Toward Preventing Adoption-Related Suicide | HuffPost

It is not cut and dried as you are making out. Thyere are many, many sources that say the opposite. Google them and you can see that it’s not ‘all studies”. They are all adopted children so adoption must be looked at.

Adoption is unhealthy but homosexuals who cannot have their own children are most likely to adopt.

No one is trying to take your mother away so stop bringing it up. This isn't about you.

Not so fast. That Sullens guy in the first link has an agenda. He is producing flawed studies to give his homophobia a scientific veneer: https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...science-to-undermine-same-sex-parents/385604/

Sure, sometimes there's problems with adoptees and their families at times but that's life. Obviously adoption isn't going anywhere and the need to find children loving homes isn't going anywhere. There is no reason to turn down a prospective family on the basis of sexual orientation. Furthermore, there is still a stigma against adoption and people privilege biological kids more in their views. You yourself are pushing this stigma by presenting adoption as "unhealthy" and lesser. So again, you are being disingenuous about using an issue for your argument that your mindset is helping to cause.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So what I'm reading here is that homosexuals care more for children left by their parents than bahais do...

Also lesbian couples can get sperm donors and have children of their own, so there's that.

Only I wasn't asking about your laws, I was asking about your opinion regarding foster parents. But I think we're getting a clear picture of it...​

Reading Here? Is that enough to make an informed judgement?

Have you met any Baha’is in person to back that up?

A lot of people here who are against Baha’is have never even met one in person or been a personal friend of one to make such calls.

I have Baha’i children regularly visit my home and they are cared for extremely well.

How can you make such a call unless you have first hand experience?

I meet Baha’is regularly do you? I see how they’re raised do you?

To make such calls you need to be informed by the reality on the ground not totally on words on a forum. I believe if people meet Bahais and see how they raise their children most of them will be impressed and I can say that as I meet them regularly.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have a Step Son and Daughter that both will never know who His Father is. An event in the 1970's born out of the new age of sexual freedom.

If you to ask him or her, they will tell you it eats at their very core not knowing who their Father was. As much as we are Father and Son (Step Daughter has extreme issues), I can not be their biological Father, to which He has so many questions they would like to know the answer to.

This is just one Family of millions, thus there are great psychological battles unfolding within millions of peoples for this very same reason. To which do not need to happen, if people are again educated to think beyond self fulfilling sex to the myriad of possible consequences.

Regards Tony

I'm sorry they feel that way but they will have to get over it. Maybe if you and your co-religionists would stop pushing this very narrow ideal of a "perfect family" that all people should have, they wouldn't feel so badly.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Reading Here? Is that enough to make an informed judgement?

Quite. You've all been very clear about "adoption is bad, birthrights" and such.

How can you make such a call unless you have first hand experience?

Because you and tony are going on and on about the "damages" of adoption, while completely ignoring the various harms that come about through "normal" family relationships.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No one is trying to take your mother away so stop bringing it up. This isn't about you.

Not so fast. That Sullens guy in the first link has an agenda. He is producing flawed studies to give his homophobia a scientific veneer: https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...science-to-undermine-same-sex-parents/385604/

Sure, sometimes there's problems with adoptees and their families at times but that's life. Obviously adoption isn't going anywhere and the need to find children loving homes isn't going anywhere. There is no reason to turn down a prospective family on the basis of sexual orientation. Furthermore, there is still a stigma against adoption and people privilege biological kids more in their views. You yourself are pushing this stigma by presenting adoption as "unhealthy" and lesser. So again, you are being disingenuous about using an issue for your argument that your mindset is helping to cause.

So is your case agenda driven. It’s materialists who push this issue.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So is your case agenda driven. It’s materialists who push this issue.

Nah, it's based on reality and facts, not prejudice and unfounded fears. I'm not a materialist.

Seems you've run out of steam. Tsk tsk.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

One of those "people" is a god in Hinduism - we've all been over this before. They are all also men, you only believe they speak for your god.

But even still, that's a lot of old, which you've stated makes for inaccuracy. You're just getting more and more inaccurate, according to your logic.

You have supported the view that the Word of God does get distorted as Faiths are more ancient. There is only One God and thus if some saw Krishna as God they were not wrong. Providing they see those same attributes in Subsequent Messages from God.

Baha'u'llah has confirmed that this Law is eternal. What has changed in this law, is the Number of wives permissible. In this age it is One man and One Wife. Muhammad before Him taught of the One God, given the time there was an allowance for more than One Wife. Christ showed us One God and confirmed Marriage between man as wife to be even as One Soul.

"Hindu marriage joins two individuals for life, so that they can pursue dharma (duty), artha (possessions), kama (physical desires), and moksha (ultimate spiritual release) together. It is a union of two individuals as husband and wife, and is recognized by law." Marriage in Hinduism - Wikipedia

The teaching given by Buddha that have survived seem to talk about the problems faced with marriage and how seeking pleasure outside of marriage is a downfall. "The Buddha saw faithfulness (anubbata or assava) as an essential component to marriage" Digha Nikaya III,190 Marriage in Buddhism – Bhante Dhammika

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Quite. You've all been very clear about "adoption is bad, birthrights" and such.


Because you and tony are going on and on about the "damages" of adoption, while completely ignoring the various harms that come about through "normal" family relationships.

Yes. Although normal biological family have problems I believe it is much more preferable to adoption.

Foster care is not as bad because the child is told of their mother and father and often permitted to visit them while in adoption often the birth certificate is effaced to prevent the child from knowing who their real parents are or they are forbidden contact.

Many adopted children suicide because they can’t locate their real families.

I believe every child is born with a natural instinct to want to know and be with it’s biologicsl mother and father and same sex marriage goes against this.