How is 'not accepting the act' a true acceptance of homosexuality?

[SomeRandom]

Y


"Hindu marriage joins two individuals for life, so that they can pursue dharma (duty), artha (possessions), kama (physical desires), and moksha (ultimate spiritual release) together. It is a union of two individuals as husband and wife, and is recognized by law." Marriage in Hinduism - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

Umm I respectfully disagree.
Hinduism recognises marriage as the joining of two souls or "atmans."
Since the soul is often considered gender less the prohibition against same sex marriage within Hinduism often comes down to specific interpretation. It can also be argued that as part of the colonial hangover homophobia cropped up or was at least fuelled.
Source: a living breathing Hindu ie me.

(Disclaimer beliefs will vary. Neither you nor I can speak for all Hindus on anything let alone something as sacred as marriage.)

 

[SomeRandom]

What is Hinduisms or the Saivites views on homosexuality ‘officially’. Who speaks for your religion?

Officially?
It's along the lines of, well they exist....
Personally I would not dare intentionally mistreat a gay person. Their protector is usually considered to be Kali. And even as someone without superstitious beliefs, per Se, I wouldn't chance ticking her off.
But that's just me though.
No one and everyone speaks for our "religion."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hinduism has recognised and celebrated a third gender well into antiquity. Hindus know it. So listening to non-Hindus rant on about how our scriptures are homophobic is just listening to fundamentalists scream at everyone else because their interpretation says something negative. It's well within one's rights to project their homophobia onto others but in reality nobody's buying it except fundamentalists of the same ilk.

I have seen no negativity on this subject from a Baha'i.

We are firm with the Laws we should uphold and the view that support this law. It is a Baha'i that has to uphold those laws. You are free to understand and live your Faith as you wish to do so. A Baha'i will never stop your right to do this.

The phobias that are being pushed, as being the Baha'i thoughts, are not coming from any Baha'i.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Umm I respectfully disagree.
Hinduism recognises marriage as the joining of two souls or "atmans."
Since the soul is often considered gender less the prohibition against same sex marriage within Hinduism often comes down to specific interpretation. It can also be argued that as part of the colonial hangover homophobia cropped up or was at least fuelled.
Source: a living breathing Hindu ie me.

(Disclaimer beliefs will vary. Neither you nor I can speak for all Hindus on anything let alone something as sacred as marriage.)

As noted before, this will boil down to what were the teachings that originally inspired a Faith that is now Called Hindu. If we were to trace the current paths of knowledge back to the Source of "the eternal law", it may be that it is the same eternal Law of the God of the Abrahamic line as well. It may also be the same One God that has given the Spirit behind all ancient beliefs that have been passed down in verbal form by Legends, stories, songs and dances.

Regards Tony

 

[SomeRandom]

As noted before, this will boil down to what were the teachings that originally inspired a Faith that is now Called Hindu. If we were to trace the current paths of knowledge back to the Source of "the eternal law", it may be that it is the same eternal Law of the God of the Abrahamic line as well. It may also be the same One God that has given the Spirit behind all ancient beliefs that have been passed down in verbal form by Legends, stories, songs and dances.

Regards Tony

That's quite a speculation and one that I don't share. Hindus have recognised the third sex and not given a toss about its existence for at least 6,000 years. Why they would suddenly go to indifference over a supposed prohibited activity just does not make sense. The indifference is just too far ingrained even back during antiquity for it to be a new development.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's quite a speculation and one that I don't share. Hindus have recognised the third sex and not given a toss about its existence for at least 6,000 years. Why they would suddenly go to indifference over a supposed prohibited activity just does not make sense. The indifference is just too far ingrained even back during into quite for it to be a new devolopment.

It is these changes in mindset and character, that are the miracles that all Gods Messengers impart to our heart. It is the purpose they come for.

I have a great optimism about our ability to change.

Time will tell if there is a strong foundation in the view that has been given.

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

This is explained as Progressive Revelation. The school of faith from early childhood to university. We are in the age of the ability to obtain all knowledge, thus the level of university.

Regards Tony

Again: that is the Bahai take on it. An advancement over some other beliefs. A misrepresentation of others. Sometimes both.

 

[SomeRandom]

It is these changes in mindset and character, that are the miracles that all Gods Messengers impart to our heart. It is the purpose they come for.

I have a great optimism about our ability to change.

Time will tell if there is a strong foundation in the view that has been given.

Regards Tony

Okay so you're saying it's better to be apathetic towards gay people?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Again: that is the Bahai take on it. An advancement over some other beliefs. A misrepresentation of others. Sometimes both.

It is definitely a choice to see it that way.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay so you're saying it's better to be apathetic towards gay people?

No, I did not say that in any comment I made, but I have now said more than enough on this subject.

Stay well and Happy. Regards Tony

 

[SomeRandom]

No, I did not say that in any comment I made, but I have now said more than enough on this subject.

Stay well and Happy. Regards Tony

So it's better to be against gay people?
You might need to clarify your position.

 

[InquiringMind]

It being a sin implies they shouldn't act on it, if they're a member of said religion. All I'm saying is that it's no different than calling homosexuality itself a sin. Are you agreeing?

I agree. It's terrible making someone choose between their family and their sexual orientation. I had to make the same choice and I chose to leave the family and the religion. I still believe I made the right decision. In my case it wasn't about homosexuality though.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Maybe we should look at what Baha’u’llah says.

Maybe you should do that more often? Seems odd to me that your "avatar of god" says that adoption is totally cool and practically holy, but you and Tony seem to bust a vein about how bad it is.

He praises these things but when one considers homosexuality and same sex marriage are forbidden by Him then this passage is in the context of a marriage between a man and woman or allows for single parenting, foster care and adoption but done legally and things like surrogacy are forbidden. Only the male sperm and the female egg of the married couple are permitted to be fertilized (IVF) not that of a third party.

Which is absolutely ridiculous and irrational. For a "living religion" you people sure are stuck in the past.

With adoption, a Baha’i cannot be party to forced adoption or to ‘buy’ children from a black market. It must be done lawfully.

As must all adoptions? Gods, what world do bahais live in?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony seem to bust a vein about how bad it is.

I suggest you will find no comment on this by me.

Regards Tony

 

[Poseidon Soter]

No same sex couple could ever have replaced my mother.

Depriving a child of a mother or a father is loving?

It is their natural birthright that we are tampering with. Nature has provided and intended a balanced male and female upbringing for children.

What definition of Nature are you going off?

 

[Vinayaka]

What definition of Nature are you going off?

Good point. After all,, homosexual behaviour happens in the animal kingdom, as does interspecies adoption. Some days I think animals are more enlightened, progressive than some of these dark ages fundamentalist religions. Fortunately the youth of today, with access to more information and science, aren't buying the stocks. So it should disappear in another 50 years or so.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I suggest you will find no comment on this by me.

Post #128 you bemoaned children not knowing their biological father, blaming it on "free sex of the 1970's". Post #131 you hop in on a valid counter-point, claiming the fact of abusive heterosexual families to be a "ludicrous non-bahai stance". Post #142 you're still going on about "perfect families" (in regards to homosexual adoption). Suggest away, but you've weighed in on the subject.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Post #128 you bemoaned children not knowing their biological father, blaming it on "free sex of the 1970's". Post #131 you hop in on a valid counter-point, claiming the fact of abusive heterosexual families to be a "ludicrous non-bahai stance". Post #142 you're still going on about "perfect families" (in regards to homosexual adoption). Suggest away, but you've weighed in on the subject.

You are reading into my comments what I have not said.

I have first hand knowledge to ALL what I have mentioned and have seen the effects over 3 generations.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Social change ... it does take time, but hopefully on this issue it will accelerate.

Marriage Equality May Lower Australia's Suicide Rate, Experts Say

http://religiousinstitute.org/resources/fact-sheet-lgbt-youth/

 

[Buddha Dharma]

These beliefs were both widely and strongly held only to eventually wither away after future knowledge exposed their incorrectedness. The same today I believe can be said for homosexuality I believe. The future alone will reveal that we have made an error of judgement in believing it to be normal and then we will be more open to try and remedy it but now anyone who says it’s not normal are judged as intolerant and this is to be expected until more knowledge comes to light.

History would indicate that the move by authorities to lessen or take rights happens on the brink of dictatorships.