How is 'not accepting the act' a true acceptance of homosexuality?

[Buddha Dharma]

As I said. People believed just as strongly in the myth that the world today believes the myth about homosexuality being normal.

I find your passive aggressive shots at homosexuality very dangerous and misguided, as though people trying to protect the rights of others were the bad ones.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

It can also be argued that as part of the colonial hangover homophobia cropped up or was at least fuelled.

Yes, colonialism did much damage to traditional cultures. The same thing happened with Buddhist majority nations, where some prejudices had never previously existed.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Well I don't know about that. Far as I know the scriptures for my little sect of a religion are at best neutral on SSM

The Dharmic religions carry no internal condemnation of same sex relationships or behavior. What we sometimes do see is cultural views that crop up. It's my personal opinion that it was largely the Abrahamic religions that first demonized any other form of sexuality or gender identity than heterosexual and binary. India had four recognized genders in the Buddha's time. I know that from having researched Buddhism's historical approaches to homosexuality.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

If you are not willing to explain how homosexuality differs from heterosexuality, then I consider the matter settled.

Consider it settled. I am not in the mood to play the endless game of 'define this term' 'according to what?'. Especially when my OP outlined what I meant.

I take this to mean that you agree that your belief may not be imposed on others simply because you regard it as the 'truth'.

I might agree if I had a better idea of what you mean. For example: somewhere ideas that people regard as truth are going to be implemented as law.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You are reading into my comments what I have not said.

Actually, no. I linked to where you are saying those things, in full context of the issue of adoption. I also did originally say you seem to be busting a vein on these issues. But your statements sure do seem to condemn adoption (outside your very narrow margins) quite a bit.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I will say no more.

Regards Tony

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you have any scriptures that mention these topics because although I say things in my words it’s not the same as the Word of God? I like to read scriptures because there is so much truth in them.

I believe in many Gods (but only one Supreme Being/Ultimate Reality/All/whatever you want to call it) and many of them are said to have had homosexual relationships. I love the Greek pantheon a lot, you see. So can't look at Greco-Roman religion and culture and come to the conclusion that homosexuality is wrong across the board (same for pretty much all cultures). I could argue with you about the Judeo-Christian scriptures, too, because I don't think they have anything to say about homosexuality in general as we would know it today.

"Word of God"...that's funny because I come from a Christian background (I'm still fond of Catholicism in some ways) and only Jesus is the true Word of God (Logos), not any books written by humans.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I believe in many Gods (but only one Supreme Being/Ultimate Reality/All/whatever you want to call it) and many of them are said to have had homosexual relationships. I love the Greek pantheon a lot, you see. So can't look at Greco-Roman religion and culture and come to the conclusion that homosexuality is wrong across the board (same for pretty much all cultures). I could argue with you about the Judeo-Christian scriptures, too, because I don't think they have anything to say about homosexuality in general as we would know it today.

"Word of God"...that's funny because I come from a Christian background (I'm still fond of Catholicism in some ways) and only Jesus is the true Word of God (Logos), not any books written by humans.

If we’re believing in the same One Ultimate Reality then He disagrees with you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If we’re believing in the same One Ultimate Reality then He disagrees with you.

Or She disagrees with you. I'm not worried about what comes after. Are you?

 

[osgart]

Nature is that whatever your heart loves you will most certainly be that in life. LGT's are what they are because thats their heart of hearts on the matter. They have rights just like us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I find your passive aggressive shots at homosexuality very dangerous and misguided, as though people trying to protect the rights of others were the bad ones.

Yes I know. But I choose to follow what Baha’u’llah says on the topic not others as He is All Knowing.

We shrink, for very shame, from treating the subject of boys. Fear ye the Merciful, O peoples of the world! Commit not that which is forbidden you in Our Holy Tablet, and be not of those who rove distractedly in the wilderness of their desire."

(Verse 107 of the Book of Aqdas)

Homosexuality, according to the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, is spiritually condemned. This does not mean that people so afflicted must not be helped and advised and sympathized with. It does mean that we do not believe that it is a permissible way of life; which, alas, is all to often the accepted attitude nowadays.

We must struggle against the evils in society by spiritual means, and medical and social ones as well. We must be tolerant and uncompromising, understanding but immovable in our point of view. (Shoghi Effendi)

A number of sexual problems, such as homosexuality and transsexuality can well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance. But it is clear from the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh that homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled and overcome.
(Universal House of Justice)

 

[loverofhumanity]

Or She disagrees with you. I'm not worried about what comes after. Are you?

I think the important thing here is not whether we disagree or not as we all have different understandings and views but that we all treat each other well.

I’ve always disliked the term homosexual (I’d much prefer just ‘fellow equal human being’) even more so as a Bahá’í because it segregates fellow human beings. A human is a human in our minds no matter what.

I don’t like classifying or compartmentalising people. To me all humans are equal people no matter what religion or no religion they practise or colour they are or nation they belong to or sexual orientation. We are all humanity and that’s good enough for me. People don’t have to bend to my understanding because my beliefs are just mine and so I accept that we are all different but above all we are all human.

I enjoy listening to your views and I’m trying to learn from you too. But as I said, you are an equal fellow human and I’m no better than you. I just have a different view but that doesn’t make me a better person than you or anyone.

 

[loverofhumanity]

History would indicate that the move by authorities to lessen or take rights happens on the brink of dictatorships.

Everyone on this planet, according to our beliefs, is an equal fellow human being. I’m happy and hoped that disgraceful behaviour such as ‘gay bashing’ will cease for good as these are fellow humans.

We may disagree on the morality of the act of homosexuality but I’m firmly against the mistreatment of homosexuals as they are people like you and I and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Maybe you should do that more often? Seems odd to me that your "avatar of god" says that adoption is totally cool and practically holy, but you and Tony seem to bust a vein about how bad it is.


Which is absolutely ridiculous and irrational. For a "living religion" you people sure are stuck in the past.


As must all adoptions? Gods, what world do bahais live in?

We’re damned if we do and damned if we dint but maybe that can change now?

In the past when we quoted Baha’u’llah people would get upset so we started trying to put things in our own words and as you can see Baha’u’llah says it better just we have to add the common sense on things like no illegal adoptions.

But you get the gist now of why I much prefer to quote from Him as people then get a much truer picture of what Baha’is really stand for.

Thanks for the advice

 

[loverofhumanity]

I find your passive aggressive shots at homosexuality very dangerous and misguided, as though people trying to protect the rights of others were the bad ones.

I never want anyone to be mistreated.

We are only discussing the morality of the issue. All people must be treated with love and respect including homosexuals.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

as you can see Baha’u’llah says it better just we have to add the common sense on things like no illegal adoptions.

What you said, and what the bahaullah said, are seemingly totally different. Namely in the quote you gave nothing was mentioned of "proper abortion" excluding homosexual couples. That's the issue; your opinion is in stark contrast to that which you claim to take inspiration from. In essence, you're adding man-formed biases and opinions onto a "divine" statement, which is also something you've condemned. It's hypocrisy. I mean, by all means have your opinions, but I wouldn't try to pretend like it's totally in line with something it's not.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What you said, and what the bahaullah said, are seemingly totally different. Namely in the quote you gave nothing was mentioned of "proper abortion" excluding homosexual couples. That's the issue; your opinion is in stark contrast to that which you claim to take inspiration from. In essence, you're adding man-formed biases and opinions onto a "divine" statement, which is also something you've condemned. It's hypocrisy.

I should have just quoted and explained that it applied to legal adoption only. Thank you for pulling me up on that one.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

You do know that homosexuals adopting is legal, right? Bahai doesn't make laws that affect that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You do know that homosexuals adopting is legal, right? Bahai doesn't make laws that affect that.

We don’t interfere. But it’s forbidden to Baha’is.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

And that's on ya'll. But claiming that any kind of adoption other than what you approve of is "harmful" (while also ignoring harm from outlets you do approve of) is troublesome.