How is 'not accepting the act' a true acceptance of homosexuality?

[The Kilted Heathen]

You have supported the view that the Word of God does get distorted as Faiths are more ancient.

No, I haven't. I've only held you to your own self-defeating logic.

Baha'u'llah has confirmed that this Law is eternal. What has changed in this law, is the Number of wives permissible.

And dozens of other things. But by all means, feel free to enjoy your blended fabrics, facial hair freedoms, and numerous other Laws that you're breaking.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm sorry they feel that way but they will have to get over it. Maybe if you and your co-religionists would stop pushing this very narrow ideal of a "perfect family" that all people should have, they wouldn't feel so badly.

You have supported what was said by saying they will have to get over it.

A perfect family takes effort from all that are part of that Family. The goal is to give the people the skills to build a strong family unit for future generations.

We lost this skill in the 1900's, though some cultures like Japan and China still have strong Family Units. The world is a beter place because of this.

Regards Tony

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Yes. Although normal biological family have problems I believe it is much more preferable to adoption.

Foster care is not as bad

You do realize that foster care is still adoption, yes? That some (probably many) children who are adopted through private adoption services (example: my mother) know who their biological parents are? That they go on to lead perfectly normal lives with their actual parents; the people who loved them and raised them?

I gotta say, you lot have a pretty twisted outlook on adoption and parentage.

I believe every child is born with a natural instinct to want to know and be with it’s biologicsl mother and father

Your beliefs do not make for fact, nor speak for thousands who are adopted.

and same sex marriage goes against this.

Unless it's a lesbian couple who birthed their child, or a gay couple who found a surrogate mother and donated sperm. Making them biological parents.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Nah, it's based on reality and facts, not prejudice and unfounded fears. I'm not a materialist.

Seems you've run out of steam. Tsk tsk.

Then if you’re not a materialist you believe in God?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You have supported what was said by saying they will have to get over it.

A perfect family takes effort from all that are part of that Family. The goal is to give the people the skills to build a strong family unit for future generations.

We lost this skill in the 1900's, though some cultures like Japan and China still have strong Family Units. The world is a beter place because of this.

Regards Tony

There is no such thing as a perfect family as human beings are not perfect. All we can do is our best but that will always be short of perfection. Sometimes family is by blood and sometimes it isn't. That does not matter. What matters is how you treat each other. Family is ultimately about the bonds we share and the actions we carry out to uphold those bonds.

East Asia also has sky high suicide rates due in part to family pressures to suceed in education and for feeling they've dishonored their families by not living up to their expectations. The price of "perfection".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Then if you’re not a materialist you believe in God?

Yes.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Also materialists believe in god(s) too.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes they do indeed. All those that still have teachings founded in God's Word, will have the same Law. All those that man has had input into, might not reflect this as clearly.

Regards Tony

Well I don't know about that. Far as I know the scriptures for my little sect of a religion are at best neutral on SSM

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is no such thing as a perfect family as human beings are not perfect. All we can do is our best but that will always be short of perfection. Sometimes family is by blood and sometimes it isn't. That does not matter. What matters is how you treat each other. Family is ultimately about the bonds we share and the actions we carry out to uphold those bonds.

East Asia also has sky high suicide rates due in part to family pressures to suceed in education and for feeling they've dishonored their families by not living up to their expectations. The price of "perfection".

This shows that a distortion of expectations has emerged. A material mindset has brought that about, a mindset that thinks one has to be materially successful to find fulfillment. This shows us what the loss of Faith in God can produce.

The striving for excellence in all things is beneficial. The ability to find the balance as we do this, is the key to a healthy mind. These are more skill sets that need to be taught to the current generation.

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

It is what we can now know with confidence.

The Older the Faith, the less likely the original Word has been passed down in its pure form, the less likely we will know what was said on this subject from the source.

According to Bahai doctrine, sure. According to other faiths, even other Abrahamic ones? Not so much.

So for the last 2000 years we have records that contain the original word being the Bible and are confirmed as 100% accurate being the Koran and the Baha'i Writings.

Thus Morality, Marriage between a Male and Female and prohibition of sex outside of Marriage has been Gods guidance in all this time. The Bible, Koran and Baha'i Laws are set in the writings.

We also now know this law will continue.

You are free to show that this is not the case in the Holy Books.

Regards Tony

All of this is speculative at best. And you are not allowing to the rather necessary hypothesis that a living religion should allow itself to learn better as centuries pass.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This shows that a distortion of expectations has emerged. A material mindset has brought that about, a mindset that thinks one has to be materially successful to find fulfillment. This shows us what the loss of Faith in God can produce.

The striving for excellence in all things is beneficial. The ability to find the balance as we do this, is the key to a healthy mind. These are more skill sets that need to be taught to the current generation.

Regards Tony

What in the world are you rambling about? "Distortion of expectations" about what?

You are not living in reality. It is telling how you cannot see how your ridiculous mindset produces unnecessary suffering.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well I don't know about that. Far as I know the scriptures for my little sect of a religion are at best neutral on SSM

I see that is the position I take for those that have not chosen to be a Baha'i, this is part of a quote from the Universal House of Justice;

"..In attempting to reconcile what may appear to be conflicting obligations, it is important to understand that the Baha’i community does not seek to impose its values on others, nor does it pass judgment on others on the basis of its own moral standards. It does not see itself as one among competing social groups and organizations, each vying to establish its particular social agenda. In working for social justice, Baha’is must inevitably distinguish between those dimensions of public issues that are in keeping with the Baha’i Teachings, which they can actively support, and those that are not, which they would neither promote nor necessarily oppose. In connection with issues of concern to homosexuals, the former would be freedom from discrimination and the latter the opportunity for civil marriage. Such distinctions are unavoidable when addressing any social issue. For example, Baha’is actively work for the establishment of world peace but, in the process, do not engage in partisan political activities directed against particular governments...."

Regards Tony

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes they do indeed. All those that still have teachings founded in God's Word, will have the same Law. All those that man has had input into, might not reflect this as clearly.

Regards Tony

Uh, no. Just no.

 

[SomeRandom]

I see that is the position I take for those that have not chosen to be a Baha'i, this is part of a quote from the Universal House of Justice;

"..In attempting to reconcile what may appear to be conflicting obligations, it is important to understand that the Baha’i community does not seek to impose its values on others, nor does it pass judgment on others on the basis of its own moral standards. It does not see itself as one among competing social groups and organizations, each vying to establish its particular social agenda. In working for social justice, Baha’is must inevitably distinguish between those dimensions of public issues that are in keeping with the Baha’i Teachings, which they can actively support, and those that are not, which they would neither promote nor necessarily oppose. In connection with issues of concern to homosexuals, the former would be freedom from discrimination and the latter the opportunity for civil marriage. Such distinctions are unavoidable when addressing any social issue. For example, Baha’is actively work for the establishment of world peace but, in the process, do not engage in partisan political activities directed against particular governments...."

Regards Tony

Well I was speaking of my religion that I was born into. Not the Baha'i Faith, though thanks for the info

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All of this is speculative at best. And you are not allowing to the rather necessary hypothesis that a living religion should allow itself to learn better as centuries pass.

This is explained as Progressive Revelation. The school of faith from early childhood to university. We are in the age of the ability to obtain all knowledge, thus the level of university.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

You do realize that foster care is still adoption, yes? That some (probably many) children who are adopted through private adoption services (example: my mother) know who their biological parents are? That they go on to lead perfectly normal lives with their actual parents; the people who loved them and raised them?

I gotta say, you lot have a pretty twisted outlook on adoption and parentage.


Your beliefs do not make for fact, nor speak for thousands who are adopted.


Unless it's a lesbian couple who birthed their child, or a gay couple who found a surrogate mother and donated sperm. Making them biological parents.

Maybe we should look at what Baha’u’llah says.

“He that bringeth up his son or the son of another, it is as though he hath brought up a son of Mine; upon him rest My glory, My loving-kindness, My mercy, that have compassed the world.”


“where Bahá’u’lláh has given a law as between a man and a woman, it applies mutatis mutandis between a woman and a man unless the context makes this impossible.”
(Universal House of Justice)


Bahá’u’lláh

He praises these things but when one considers homosexuality and same sex marriage are forbidden by Him then this passage is in the context of a marriage between a man and woman or allows for single parenting, foster care and adoption but done legally and things like surrogacy are forbidden. Only the male sperm and the female egg of the married couple are permitted to be fertilized (IVF) not that of a third party.

With adoption, a Baha’i cannot be party to forced adoption or to ‘buy’ children from a black market. It must be done lawfully.

So looking after another’s child is highly praised but there are conditions attached.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well I don't know about that. Far as I know the scriptures for my little sect of a religion are at best neutral on SSM

Hinduism has recognised and celebrated a third gender well into antiquity. Hindus know it. So listening to non-Hindus rant on about how our scriptures are homophobic is just listening to fundamentalists scream at everyone else because their interpretation says something negative. It's well within one's rights to project their homophobia onto others but in reality nobody's buying it except fundamentalists of the same ilk.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes.

Do you have any scriptures that mention these topics because although I say things in my words it’s not the same as the Word of God? I like to read scriptures because there is so much truth in them.

 

[SomeRandom]

Hinduism has recognised and celebrated a third gender well into antiquity. Hindus know it. So listening to non-Hindus rant on about how our scriptures are homophobic is just listening to fundamentalists scream at everyone else because their interpretation says something negative. It's well within one's rights to project their homophobia onto others but in reality nobody's buying it except fundamentalists of the same ilk.

I totally agree.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hinduism has recognised and celebrated a third gender well into antiquity. Hindus know it. So listening to non-Hindus rant on about how our scriptures are homophobic is just listening to fundamentalists scream at everyone else because their interpretation says something negative. It's well within one's rights to project their homophobia onto others but in reality nobody's buying it except fundamentalists of the same ilk.

What is Hinduisms or the Saivites views on homosexuality ‘officially’. Who speaks for your religion?