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how is this a humble stance?

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Alex_G said:
I think it’s probably virtuous and healthy to have a reasonable amount of humbleness, but also a degree of self-interest and self-importance, to feel empowered and authentic as an individual in life. I do agree that a belief that we have some cosmic importance, with specific design and care for our day to day life by an all-powerful being is not exactly humble. But I’m sure many people who hold such a belief might very well be humble in other aspects of their life, or maybe not.

There is some fuzziness i find surrounding religion, religious belief and humbleness. It’s almost like a confusion of term definition and the emotions/states of mind aimed at being described, such that the religious 'follower' is in awe of God, his grandeur and power, recognises the insignificance and un-importance of themselves in comparison and echoes humbleness in that sense. But at the same time, as i mentioned, the belief itself holds many aspects that seem so completely not humble.

Alex
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thanks Alex,

i am of the opinion that importance is due when it is due...
it's not a right, it's earned..and i also think humility is our default position. such a belief feeds the notion that there is a purpose to our existence and that purpose merits importance. but, when we look at how insignificant we are compared to events from a tsunami to a pandemic we have no choice but to be humbled by such things... and to think there are those who pray to a god who is concerned with such things that because 'they' are praying, god will consider them and favor them above someone else...
and most of these people of course are not arrogant in their nature.

please understand i am not calling everyone who believes this as arrogant by default...it is just this is an arrogant notion and one aspect about our humanity i also consider fuzzy...
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
Hmm.. Is hubris your favorite word? :)
Click to expand...
yes....
try and say it 10 times in a row 10 times as fast...
you'll get a cramp... :p

If we believe in an all-knowing Creator, we sort of have to believe the universe was created with us in mind.. because we're apart of the creation, and are the most advanced species around.
Click to expand...

no we're not...

we can't fly, or breath underwater
we can't grow missing limbs...
our adrenal glands are too big for our bodies and 1 tube for food and breathing is a very faulty 'design'


if you think we are advanced because we have the ability to rationalize, don't
we rationalize our selves into dangerous situations...?

empathy is shared with other social creatures too.
 
I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
What I find is MORE egotistical from a theist perspective is for those theists that believe in a concept of god that is omnipotent, omniscient etc and yet they still believe that they are capable of knowing what god INTENDED by some part of a text they believe was either directly created or inspired by that god.... they believe that they have a credible means by which to identify the INTENTION of this 'perfect being' which is supposedly so far beyond comprehension.... that is incredibly, mind-bogglingly arrogant.
 
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waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Straw Dog said:
What do you mean by "advanced"? Do you just mean the most "intelligent" or "complicated"? Even if that were the case, then we're only the most advanced species that we happen to be aware of, and that's not saying much since we're only now being capable of discovering other earth-like planets that may also harbor life, if not intelligent life. I don't necessarily see our common traits relative to other species as automatically better either. Consider how dependent we really are on the greater ecosystem we are a part of. Without bees, for example, things would become pretty difficult all around.

Bees are the most invaluable species on Earth, and why // Current TV
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well said
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
"I am significant," is pride. It can be healthy ego if it elevates right thinking, right action or right being, or it can be hubris, elevating and inflated its own worth. "I am insignificant compared to the greatness of (insert something else here)," is pride that is warped: it inflates the other, and in doing so deflates itself. "Deflation" is not in itself "humbling." It can even be damaging to a healthy ego.

"I am" is ego, contained in both pride and hubris. "God is" is mirrored ego; "I am," mirrored as the world. If the ego is healthy, and if it holds a healthy image of the mirror, the two can merge. Ego can vanish into the mirrored being til there is nothing left that is not god. That is the ego humbled.
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food for thought...thank you.
do you mean there's a tendency to over compensate in other areas when one deflates self?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Straw Dog said:
My thinking has come to this kind of realization as well. It's impossible to adequately gauge our "significance" just based on our relative size to the rest of the cosmos. Just because something is incredibly small doesn't mean it has no significance nor does something being incredibly large mean that it holds much more significance. Perhaps it's not a matter of significance since that's in the eye of the beholder, but rather narrow-mindedness which views humanity as separate from the cosmos or better than it in a dominating fashion. It may also be wrong to think the universe is better than us. We are in the universe and the universe is within us. I mean after all, we tend to hold a lot of significance towards one another.
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Odion said:
Aren't we? :)
I think everything is. Nothing is not. :D
Click to expand...

life emerged from star dust.
:)
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
waitasec said:
food for thought...thank you.
do you mean there's a tendency to over compensate in other areas when one deflates self?
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We tend to define ourselves by what is significant to us. Where deflation is painful, the pain becomes significant, so we might define ourselves by that pain; where it is oppressive, we might define ourselves as oppressed or victimized. That's the kind of "damage" I meant.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
We tend to define ourselves by what is significant to us. Where deflation is painful, the pain becomes significant, so we might define ourselves by that pain; where it is oppressive, we might define ourselves as oppressed or victimized. That's the kind of "damage" I meant.
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how are we to measure deflation?


edit:
i see deflation as something that is ultimately relative in nature...
compare the size of the earth to the sun and then compare the size of the sun to antares
we are not being deflated unless we think ourselves to be something that is comparable...

if the earth disappeared, i hardly think that would be significant to the universe or to the black hole that is at the center of our galaxy...because these things are outside of our scope of understanding.

having said that, within our scope of understanding, we rely on something as little as a bee.
 
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Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
waitasec said:
how are we to measure deflation?


edit:
i see deflation as something that is ultimately relative in nature...
compare the size of the earth to the sun and then compare the size of the sun to antares
we are not being deflated unless we think ourselves to be something that is comparable...

if the earth disappeared, i hardly think that would be significant to the universe or to the black hole that is at the center of our galaxy...because these things are outside of our scope of understanding.

having said that, within our scope of understanding, we rely on something as little as a bee.
Click to expand...
We "deflate" ourselves when we think ourselves to be less than what we are.

If the earth disappeared while you were busy standing on it, it might be a bit more significant.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
We "deflate" ourselves when we think ourselves to be less than what we are.

If the earth disappeared while you were busy standing on it, it might be a bit more significant.
Click to expand...

but what qualifies the 'less' though...
i'll put in real life terms...
i am a mother, this doesn't mean that i deflate myself because i can't be the best mother ever when i compare myself to other mothers..
but i can be the best mother i can be

if the earth disappeared....i probably would come to terms with my insignificance
 
S

Sgloom

Active Member
i enjoy life, but i find no significance to our existance. once were all gone it will be like we were never here in the first place. the only thing i can do is appreciate the here and now and marvel at the fact that we even exist in the first place.

if theres any reason to exist in the first place, it has to be to appreciate all thats around us, i cant think of another reason
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
waitasec said:
but what qualifies the 'less' though...
i'll put in real life terms...
i am a mother, this doesn't mean that i deflate myself because i can't be the best mother ever when i compare myself to other mothers..
but i can be the best mother i can be

if the earth disappeared....i probably would come to terms with my insignificance
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You are the mother that you are. If some of that gets dismissed in attitude, then there is deflation.

If the earth disappeared, your opinion literally wouldn't have a foot to stand on.
 
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